News: Baptism of Homosexuals in the Baptist Church

The Bible doesn't say that homosexuality is abomination - only the act of same-sex sex. One can be gay and not sexually active, and there's no Scriptural grounds whatsoever for calling that sinful or abomination. Just to clarify.

 

Have you looked at the various things that are described as abomination? (Not just the ones that are currently popular because they fit the fundamentalist antigay agenda.) Have you investigated what it meant for something (or someone) to "be abomination" in the context in which the appellation was made? Do you run as fast and hard from all of them? Do you perhaps actually do some of them? Have you looked at how this whole category is modified if not demolished by the saving act of Christ symbolized by the rending of the curtain in the temple at the time of his death, and how this relates to the stories I mentioned in Acts?

I believe the Bible itself teaches us to go beyond the Bible specifically in accepting those who manifest the gifts of the Spirit, and this is clearly exemplified in Acts 10. Show me where, in Acts 10, Peter refers to Scripture either to see the new and deeper meaning in his vision, or in justifying the baptism of the [presumptively unclean, probably abominable] gentile officer of the occupying army.

Haruo

 

My apologies, Angie (and anyone else), if I came across as angry. I am not a particularly angry person, indeed these days I'm rather happy and grateful most of the time. And what anger I may have on this subject was not directed towards you, I apologize if it seemed that way. (My comments were directed at least as much to ras and Sue, and perhaps Anthro, as at you, and I'm not angry at those folks either. Frustrated at times, but not angry.) I certainly don't think "such nasty people" is a reasonable characterization of me, but if I somehow caused you to think so, I apologize for that too.

Love in Christ, Haruo

 

Hi i'm new here and find it surprised that there are those who called themselves baptist but could not see the error of homosexuality. Even nature is clearly against this lifestlye. You can not find it among muslims, budhist and others and would not find any support even in any cult groups. I am sad that some unbelievers particularly from muslim world take this as a reason why they don't want to be a christian because they see the professing Christian as morally blind.

 

Amen Southeastbaptist, I agree totally and btw welcome to the board.
Murph

 

Just love the Christian answers to all questions. This is a good example of the net result.
Click on link: http://www.uclick.com/client/byr/td/

 

Welcome, Southeastbaptist!

I am not sure what you mean by this. In what sense (other than paraphrasing Romans 1) is this clear? Homosexual behavior is well documented in non-human species. Orientation? Not so sure. As for "lifestyle", there is no single definable "homosexual lifestyle". There are plenty of GLBT parents, so homosexuality is clearly not a bar to the perpetuation of the species.

There most certainly are GLBT Muslims, Buddhists, and members of a wide variety of cult groups. If the best reason a Muslim can come up with for not wanting to be a Christian is that some of us don't condemn GLBT folks out of hand, they're not thinking very clearly.

Again, welcome to BaptistBoard!

Haruo

 

First of all, I kinda like what John required for his baptism: "bring forth fruits meet unto repentance". That would settle the question with the exception of the "sliders".

SLIDER - One who will use literal language of the Word of God and interpret it in Allegorical or Figurative language without the God given authority to do so. Generally done to satisfy the personal theological interest of the interpretor and/or to satisfy and cover one's desire to imbibe in fleshly and worldly activity.

Also I believe to be bound to the Powerful God a person is automatically bound to His Powerful Word.
"Bible-thumper" is not derogatory to me. The Lord Christ will welcome those who loved His Word.

BAPTIST Distinctive: The Word of God The ONLY rule for faith and practice in a Christian's life.
Thanks ------Bart

 

Please show me evidence of God 'cleansing' a homosexual couple's relationship? I know you can't prove that from scripture.

'Homosexual Christian' is still an oxymoron. If a homosexual truly gets saved and repents of his sin; then he is no longer a homosexual. That is why we need to praying for them; not baptizing them...

A homosexual CHOOSES that lifestyle. If he gets saved, he will no longer CHOOSE it but LOSE it!


Sue

 

Sue,

If people could choose their sexual orientation everyone would choose to be straight.

The argument for recognizing that homosexuality is not sinful does not come from prooftexting. It comes from recognizing that no Christians take all of the Bible's teachings (or even Jesus' teachings) on sin literally.

Joshua

 

quoting Rev. Joshua;

Amen Joshua!

From the Biblical Recorder:


Confronting (in)consistency

By Tony W. Cartledge
BR Editor


The recent expulsion of McGill Baptist Church from the Cabarrus Baptist Association is the latest reminder that Baptists have a split personality when it comes to our perception of sin.

There are regular sins, which don't seem to trouble us much, and there is homosexual sin, which sends us off the edge.

The kinds of offenses described in the Ten Commandments are present in every church I'm familiar with, sometimes in rather obvious fashion. We have members who routinely break the first commandment by putting the God of materialism before the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

We have members who fail to honor God through observing a "Sabbath" of worship and rest.

We have members who disrespect their parents on a daily basis, and make little or no attempt to hide it.

We have members who can lie to their families and to the government without blinking an eye.

We have members who covet, members who steal from their employer (or employees), members who cheat on their spouses and break promises meant to last forever.

Outside of reading the minutes from church business meetings back in the 1920s, I've never known of a church that gave any of those members the boot, and most of those were for dancing.

I've never known of an association or state convention that "withdrew fellowship" from a church for harboring such sinners, whether repentant or unrepentant.

But, if the perceived sin is related to homosexuality, we have a different set of rules.

There are indeed some biblical texts that describe homosexual acts as sin.

There are many, many more texts that describe heterosexual or non-sexually related activities as sinful and falling short of God's ideal.

But we react to people with a homosexual orientation in ways that we would not react to heterosexuals, though they may also be adulterers, drunkards, liars or materialists.

The Bible clearly says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Here is the issue: is it better to have homosexual sinners in the church where they can learn more of God and grow in grace, even as we hope heterosexual sinners will do? Or do we believe their gender orientation should exclude them from the church in ways that do not apply to other sinners?

I can't find one biblical text to support the idea that God's grace and love are limited by gender or by gender preference. The discrimination we show in our different approaches to heterosexual sinners and homosexual sinners is not based on scripture, but culture.

I'm aware that the current issue has to do with baptism, and the belief that new Christians should publicly repent of their sins as they declare allegiance to Christ.

But Christians are called to a life of continued repentance as God convicts us of our continued failings. Should not churches that harbor unrepentant members also be held to account?

Brian McLaren has pointed out that one problem of modern evangelicals is that we tend to make the starting line the finish line. We seem to think that those who are beginning their Christian walk must be perfect, rather than acknowledging that every believer faces a lifelong struggle to grow in grace.

Maybe that's one of the reasons we have so many inactive members who care nothing for a daily walk with Christ, but remain comfortably in our membership files. If we market salvation (and church membership) as little more than an easy ticket to heaven and the gateway to immediate spiritual perfection, we discount Christ's call for a lifetime of discipleship and growth.

When we send the message that only one category of sinner is unacceptable in the churches, it gives the impression that other categories are okay.

That is a mixed message at best.

 

Joshua:

Are you saying, then, that God made them homosexual? We are made in God's image and He is not homosexual! Why would God make someone to be something he has explicitly condemned???

As far as I know, the only people who do not take God's condemnation of sin literally are lost people.


Sue

 

Thanks, Haruo

I mean, in every animal species we can't find any kind of this homosexual behavior. Also, every morally inclined human wether they are from any type of religious persuasion would not tolerate this kind of lifestyle. This prove that this is not just a lifestlye preference but rather a deliberate departure from what is a common and basic concept of good morality.

That is the reason why God hates this kind of lifestyle because this is against nature. God condemns it both in OT and NT. He even included this kind of practice worthy of death. But God is merciful, "He is not willing that any one should perish but longsuffering to ward us so that all should come to repentance."

 

Are you suggesting then, I am blessed, that no one is saved. The article I quoted covered a lot of sins in the church that are condemned by God and yet are dealt with in the church. Quotes from Gal 5 ...18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

The Republican House allows homosexual to lead in prayer:

NEWS
First Pastor From Gay Denomination Prays in Congress

Kevin Eckstrom
05-05-03
WASHINGTON (RNS) For the first time, a pastor affiliated with the nation's largest primarily gay denomination has offered the opening prayer in the House of Representatives.


The Rev. Steven Torrance, a police chaplain in Key West, Fla., and a pastor in the Metropolitan Community Church, offered the prayer on Thursday, which was also designated the National Day of Prayer.


"Help us to secure justice and equality for every human being; help us bring an end to division, and continue to build our country on peace and love," Torrance prayed in the House chambers.

The Rev. Troy Perry, founder of the 35-year-old denomination, said the prayer was a milestone for his church.


"Rev. Torrance's prayer before the U.S. House of Representatives marks yet another significant milestone in MCC's ongoing quest for equal rights for gays and lesbians at every level of the government," Perry said in a statement.

The log cabin republicans must be happy

 

A homosexual can be saved just like the drunkard, the harlot, idolater, fornicator, murderer etc. provided that they repent and believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior. But if that homosexual, drunkard, idolater, fornicator, murderer etc. do not realized the error of their ways they can't be saved. As Christ said, Unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish. It is one thing to see the error of his way and another thing to continue to justify his wrong ways. A true converted, born again child of God will desire to change his wrong ways although it takes time to completely forsake them depending upon the grace that God bestowed upon him. But if you will continue in your old ways without any desire to abandon them, then you are not saved at all since 2 Cor. 5:17 would not be true to him. A good tree never bring forth bad fruit. And by their works, we shall know them wether they are Christ's disciples are not.

 

You are right. It comes from denying the implications of several texts that directly make homosexuality a sin as well as numerous that make all sex outside of a heterosexual marriage sinful.

Yes. As a matter of fact, some of us do although we do not confuse the ceremonial and civil aspects of OT law with the moral aspects.

The Bible gives principles as well as commands. Perhaps that is what you are referring to as non-literal interpretation.