News: Declining Churches Oppose Iraq War

[Rev. Joshua]

Originally posted by Phillip:
First, I totally disagree in your classification of Mormons as fundamental Christians. ...taint so.

Second, your last statement is obviously wrong for two reasons--number one the theme of this thread that liberalism is NOT growing on a nationwide scale, and second it is a shame to compromise to get people to church. Would you serve beer to young people to get them to come to church?

First - Mormons are not Orthodox Christians - but they are growing because they appeal to the same kind of ***negative remark removed*** that Christian fundamentalism appeals to.

Secondly - I'm not talking about "compromise." I believe liberal Christianity is authentic Christianity; and that as such it has a much broader appeal. Most people in America think that people of faith are represented by fringe fanatics like Jerry Fallwell, Bob Jones, and the TBN crowd. Consequently, the bulk of the small percentage of the population that goes from apathy to joining a church is comprised of people who want what the Fallwell's of the world have to offer.

The challenge is reaching the rest of the populace - those for whom fundamentalism is insufficient. For them, liberal Christianity is a much better fit. Sadly, though, most liberal Christians are recovering fundamentalists and they have thrown the baby of evangelism out with the bathwater of fundamentalist evangelicalism.

As for the beer - only if it's good beer like Sam Adams. Who would want to come to a church that served Budweiser.

Joshua

[ December 01, 2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Calista:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by new man:

Constitution hating, [snip]..., ACLU card carrying,

I think this is a contradiction in terms here.

I think that we should abide by the rules of the international community to show respect for the rule of law.

Cal-- a card carrying member of the ACLU</font>

I disagree. I believe that at one time we were a sovereign nation. I think we should tell the international community to either get on board and let America lead, or go jump in a lake. But we love to give up our national soveriengty all for the sake of diversity, socialism, and so we can look good to all of the European nations in the world. I vehemently disagree. We have done just fine for a long time without France. Amd I believe we still could. The bottom line is that the UN and the rest of the international community that opposes Israel and America's war against terrorism are wrong and should be ignored. Further, we should pull out of the UN as soon as possible and cease funding their operations here in America and kick them out and send them back to Europe. If a private organization wants to start a privately funded UN here in America, so be it.

Joseph Botwinick

PS: Joshua,

Was that bigoted and hate filled enough for you...I can do better than that if not...

 

[JamesJ]

Originally posted by Rev. Joshua:
snip ... to the same kind of ***Remark removed*** that Christian fundamentalism appeals to.

Explanation: Liberalism is weak and offers no real arguements with any substance, as has been shown here time and time and again, so in the face of the truth, and lacking anything of substance to offer, I'll just call people names. Yeah... that'll do it.

[ December 01, 2002, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[new man]

new man:
While I can see why the ACLU would support some of the things you've listed (Nazis and Communists are still entitled to the rights of free speech and assembly for one), you've given no evidence that the ACLU either supports or rejects any of these things. Your word (good as it may be) is not proof.

Well by all means, don't take my word for it. Here is a referenced article for you:

The ALCU and Religious Expression

Another article without references:

The Many Meanings of ACLU

And probably the best one, with references from it's own publications:

Revealing Facts on the ACLU

Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Rev. Joshua]

Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:
PS: Joshua,

Was that bigoted and hate filled enough for you...I can do better than that if not...

Nah, hate-mongering and bigotry was never your strong suit.

 

[Gina B]

Calista: WHY would anyone who associates with Christ be proud to be a card-carrying member of the ACLU? That disgusts me.
Gina

 

[Gina B]

You, as a child of God, would claim to be proud of THIS?

"The ACLU was the first national organization to argue for abortion rights before the Supreme Court, and has been the principal defender of those rights since 1973, when the Court recognized the right to choose in Roe v. Wade."

"WASHINGTON - The American Civil Liberties Union today criticized a federal regulation set for publication in the Federal Register on October 2 that extends children's health insurance to fetuses as an unnecessary attack on reproductive freedom."

"Nothing is more important than making schools safe and welcoming places for gay and lesbian youth"

"ACLU Tells School Council It Must Allow Gay-Straight Alliance (09/19/2002)
ASHLAND, KY –– After two denials of an application to form a Gay-Straight Alliance, the American Civil Liberties Union has sent a letter to officials at Boyd County High School demanding that they approve creation of the club."

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by JamesJ:
"Liberal" Chrisitanity doesn't communicate the gospel at all, only what feels good, only what scratches the itching ears of those who want to hear that they've been let off the hook and it's OK to remain in their sins. [/QB]

James I agree totally, I like the way you think!!!

Murph

 

[new man]

First - Mormons are not Orthodox Christians -

Well, seems you have something in common with them.

[/QUOTE]Can you read? Despite conflicting reports, their own publication stated that membership has declined significantly, and is still declining.

I believe liberal Christianity is authentic Christianity; and that as such it has a much broader appeal.

Oh yeah? Well I believe there is a little green leprechaun living in the woods behind my house. Just as you fail to discern scriptural truth, you fail to discern even historical truth. Liberal churches are on the D-E-C-L-I-N-E. I know this must come as a shock to you, but alas it's true.

Liberal Christianity Dying

Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;

[ December 01, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Rev. Joshua]

Russ,

Did you actually read the full content of my post or were you just having so much fun attacking me that you didn't bother?

Joshua

 

[Gina B]

Joshua, you slammed all Christian Fundamentalists and put them in the same category as the cultic non-believers in the power of the cross Mormons and you're gonna whine that someone bristles? You get what you give, and you give out quite a load of boloney. (sp)
Gina

 

[Rev. Joshua]

Gina - ****Attack against fundamental Christians removed**** I think Mormonism does much the same thing, and actually appeals to the same demographic groups for the same reasons.

On the other hand, Christian fundamentalism is generally within the realm of orthodox Christianity (KJVOnlyism perhaps excepted). So is liberal Christianity. Mormonism is not.

My point was that Russ - in his glee over attacking me - skipped right past the point of my post.

As for "giving what I get" I think that's hardly the case on this Board. I am clear that I don't think fundamentalism is the healthiest form of Christianity, but I am hardly vicious or vitriolic.

Joshua

[ December 01, 2002, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Gina B]

Can you list the fundamental beliefs you disagree with and find repulsive to your definition of true Christianity?
Gina

 

[Gina B]

BTW, forgot to add that stating disbelief in matters of truth IS vicious and vitriolic, no matter how pleasantly they're stated. There IS no nice and non-abrasive way to call God a liar, which is what is done when one denies the truth and accept the lies of Satan.
Gina

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Brothers and Sisters having reached the third page this thread will be closed in the A.M.(whenever I get up) This is a news forum and some of our posts have strayed from being news. Please use the next hours to add your final thoughts but let's all be very Christlike in our posts.
Thanks
Murph

 

[Gina B]

Ok, let me get this in now then.
The fundamentals..they're the fundamentals of WHAT? Baptists? Religion? Mormons? McDonald's workers? NO
They're the fundamentals of CHRISTIANITY, so why would anyone who denies them want to claim to be a Christian? It doesn't make sense!
Gina

 

[Calista]

Gina:

I believe that all people should be free to excercise their rights, whether I agree with them or not. The answer to today's problems is to make people responsible for their choices, not to limit their choices.

I'm sorry that you think this is disgusting. I think that denying a person her rights based on her color or religion or ethnicity is disgusting.

Cal

 

[Calista]

Gina:

I don't believe that the state should force women to have unwanted children. Therefore, I support Roe v. Wade. I should make decisions about my healthcare, including my reproductive health. It is none of your business what method of birth control I use.

I think that it is ludicrous that the government would be extending children's health insurance to non-existant citizens before it extends it to the women who are bearing those non-existant citizens. There are millions of living and present Americans without adequate health care, let's work on those before we work on providing for fetuses.

I think that schools should be safe for all students. That includes children of differing beliefs and people who are homosexual. No one (especially Christians who make up the majority of the U.S.) should be taunting or beating these students. How does that show compassion? The kind of compassionate example that Christ showed us when he left heaven to die a dirty death for us sinners?

As for the KY school, we have a thing called Equal Access in government schools. Clubs must be given equal access under the present rules. All clubs must be treated the same way. This is the same rule that allows for Bible clubs to meet during the school day and on school property. If that school system doesn't want that type of club, they don't have to have it--but it means that they can't have other clubs either.

Equal rights means equality, not second class citizenship for people we think are sinners. Sin isn't a concept in our laws.

Cal

 

[JamesJ]

I don't believe that the state should force women to have unwanted children.

(Sorry Murph... this is WAY off subject but I just can't help myself)

Good. And you're right. The state, in fact, nobody should force women to have unwanted children.

How's this... Nobody should force MEN to have unwanted children vis-a-vi child-support payments, etc. but that's another discussion.

Back on track...
The state isn't forcing women to have unwanted children. If people would take responsibilty for their own actions (and a few more cold showers), there would be very few unwanted children. The people who were there in the beginning made the child, not the state. The state is "forcing" nobody to have children. They made the child doing the thing that grown-up people do, now let them do the adult thing and take responsibility for the product of their actions. It could end up being the greatest blessing God ever gave them!

 

[Marty Lineberry]

Or the kind of wrath that Christ will show when he returns from heaven for the all the Luke warm Christians in this country.

Q: What's worse then going to hell?
A: Standing in front of Holy and Merciful God as a Christian and having to answer to his Face for your Lukewarm self!

Either choose God or Homosexuality. PERIOD!
There is no middle ground!
How much MERCY do think God has?
Read Revelation!

REPENT FOR THE KINGDON OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND!