News: Media Ignores Pro-America Rallys

could you give an example of these 'seditious actions'?

 

Hmmm... Let's see...

1 - Iraq invades Kuwait
2 - The US, in conjunction with the UN, conducts military action against Iraq to remove them from Kuwait.
3 - Iraq launches attacks at Israel, which we combat.
4 - Iraq agrees to withdraw from Kuwait. Part of the terms of the UN cesession of military action against Iraq are to refrain from the building of weapons of mass destruction, and to agree to inspections by UN security.
5 - Since then, Iraq has violated the terms of the agreement by forbidding UN inspectors in several times, and by the building of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq knows full well that violating the terms may result in the resuming of military action from the Gulf War.

Aside from the US and UN arguing over the next best course of action, I see nothing in this scenario that is in any way unclear as to why military action in Iraq is appropriate.

 

could you give an example of these 'seditious actions'? </font>[/QUOTE]Among others, the two Congressmen who went to Iraq to show support for Iraq and the "human shields" whose purpose is to thwart the U.S. military.

 

Johnv, I agree 100%. Plain as the nose on yer face.

 

***IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT "PEACE" DEMONSTRATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES, AND DUE TO THE POPE TAKING SUCH A HARD STAND FOR PEACE INSTEAD OF WAR WITH IRAQ, I WAS LED TODAY
TO RE-AIR A RECENT DEVOTIONAL ON THE REALITY OF EVIL IN OUR WORLD.

NO SANE PERSON WANTS WAR, AND PEACE IS THE BEST OPTION. HOWEVER, IT TAKES TWO PARTIES TO HAVE PEACE. EVIL IS NOT A FRIEND OF PEACE. EVIL DOES NOT WANT PEACE. ADOLPH HITLER WAS AN EVIL MAN. DURING HIS RISE TO POWER IN THE MID 30'S, EUROPEAN NATIONS REFUSED TO CHALLENGE HIM. THEY TRIED TO IGNORE HIM, HOPING THAT HE WOULD GO AWAY.

MY FRIEND, EVIL IN THIS SINFUL WORLD IS VERY REAL AND WILL NOT GO AWAY. IT MUST BE CHALLENGED OR IT WILL DESTROY EVERYTHING THAT STANDS IN ITS WAY. AS NOBLE AS THE PEACE MOVEMENT IS, AS NOBLE AS THE CALL FOR PEACE THAT THE POPE ISSUED IS, IT IS NOT A LEGITIMATE OPTION WHEN DEALING WITH EVIL.

SADDAM HUSSEIN IS AN EVIL MAN. HE HAS KILLED OVER 1 MILLION OF HIS OWN PEOPLE IN THE LAST DECADE. LIKE HITLER, THERE IS ONLY ONE OPTION
IN DEALING WITH HUSSEIN. TAKE HIM OUT OF HIS POSITION OF POWER WITH WHATEVER FORCE IS NECESSARY. YOU EITHER ELIMINATE EVIL, OR IT WILL
ELIMINATE YOU.

Is evil real? Evil is not a paranoid concept, IT IS REAL!

Most people want to dismiss evil as a fairy tale, but what happened in the United States on 9/11 was an example of evil.

The recent sniper incident that held the entire
Washington DC area in terror for 3 weeks was an example of evil.

The tens of thousands of babies aborted each day worldwide is an example of evil.

Those men and women around the world who plot to kill other people for whatever reason are an example of evil.

EVIL IS NOT AN FANTASY...IT IS REAL...IT IS A SAD
PART OF THE HUMAN EXISTENCE!!!

First, understand that God is NOT the author of evil. Evil stems from the rebellious hearts of man. Man has to make choices throughout each day, to either obey God, or rebel against Him. Evil is a manifestation of that rebellion. Those who choose to follow God, make choices that build people up, advance the cause of God on this earth, are positive. Those who choose to reject God, make choices that destroy people, oppose the plan of God for this world, and are negative.

To be blunt, those who follow God are good,
those who choose to reject God are evil. This may sound harsh, but evil can ONLY come from those who are in rebellion to, and reject God!

Satan is the embodiment of evil. He rejected God and was cast out of Heaven, and his entire purpose is to oppose the work of God. Satan is the poster boy for rebellion against God! The simple fact is that any time that you rebel against God in your life, any time that you reject His way, you contribute to the evil that is in this world.

Evil ONLY EXISTS because of the rebellious hearts of man. As hard as this may be to accept, the fact is, every time that you reject God, every time that you choose to ignore God,
YOU ARE SIDING WITH SATAN AND ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE EVIL THAT IS IN THIS WORLD!

The motivation for this Devotional today was the way the world has tried to down play what Saddam Hussein really is, the way that our society tries to downplay the existence of evil in our world, the way our society tries to make every excuse in the book to call evil anything but what it truly is....EVIL!

This is why I emphasize so often how important it
is to read the Bible each day, since THAT is how we better understand exactly what God expects from us, how He has asked us to live our lives.
That way, we can follow Him in all of our choices, and we don't have to be in rebellion, we don't have to contribute to the evil that already is rampant in our world today.

The good news is this. The Bible tells us that in the end, God will wipe out ALL evil from this world. It will no longer be part of this existence.

But until this time, we have a responsibility as His children to not only fight against the evil that exists, but to not contribute to it through the choices that we make each day.

Evil is real, but God is greater than evil, and He will one day, very soon, eliminate it.

~Bill Keller~


Sue

 

The whole argument here is over point 5 - there is no evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.

Further - all the actions against Iraq in your timeline were sanctioned by the UN - if the UN refuses to sanction war this time do you still support it? because it seems totally illogical to do so ie:

- Iraq is in violation of resolutions so we will go to war with them.

- the UN doesn't sanction war

- we go go to war with Iraq to enforce UN resolutions whilst ignoring the UN

 

InHim; Did you even bother reading my post; the one right above your last one?

Did it make any sense to you at ALL? It is written from a Biblical standpoint.

It feels so nice to be ignored on this forum.

Sue

 

I'd like to ignore the U.N.

They have too much power, and our country was formed so we wouldn't have to be part of an orginization like the U.N.

They just don't seem to be doing much for us now, do they ?

And France ? You would think they would be more willing to work with us after we bailed them outta two world wars.

 

then what is the basis for war with Iraq? because the only reasonable basis I can see is that outlined above ie. Iraq broke the conditions of the ceasefire - otherwise you have:

- Iraq has WMD (unproven)
- Iraq is a threat to the US (untrue)

not a very solid moral or legal case for war.

the UN has no power in and of itself - it is a forum for the international community, and is an organisation that any democratic state should be a member of.

you mistyped "they won't do what we want"

 

yes I did

very little

I am not ignoring you I just don't see what there is to discuss about the sermon that you posted or how it relates to the discussion at hand. I agree with the statements about evil being real etc but really fail to see how they relate to a war in Iraq.

The logic of the argument is pretty weak ie Hussain is evil so we should fight him - notice how well this works:

- okay all evil must be destroyed

- every unsaved person is evil

therefore we must destroy all unsaved people - do you seriously advocate the 'elimination' of all unsaved people? should be start rounding them up and have them shot?

 

It relates to this discussion because it is saying that Saddam Hussein is EVIL.

You said the article doesn't make much sense to you. It is full of scriptural advice. Do you not read the Bible; or if you do; does it not make sense to you either?

I hope your last question was in jest.

Of course, we shouldn't kill all the unsaved people, just the EVIL ones who are a threat to our national security and to their own country.

I don't see much difference in Hussein and Hitler. Would you have tried to settle that war peacefully too???

I feel like a kindergarten teacher trying to explain to a slow student what is evil and what is not.

There has been evidence on this thread that Hussein IS A THREAT...DOES HAVE CONCEALED WEAPONS..IS A MONSTER...IS EVIL...WILL DESTROY US IF GIVEN A CHANCE...HAS DESTROYED HIS OWN PEOPLE.

It is beyond me why you cannot see this? Or do you just like to post these things to raise the level of ire of us who ARE Americans?


Sue

 

Of course I read the bible - I don't see any scripture quoted in your sermon

It is the logical conclusion of the sermon you posted - once again:

The logic of the argument is pretty weak ie Hussain is evil so we should fight him - notice how well this works:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU EITHER ELIMINATE EVIL, OR IT WILL ELIMINATE YOU.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- okay all evil must be destroyed


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be blunt, those who follow God are good, those who choose to reject God are evil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- every unsaved person is evil

therefore we must destroy all unsaved people - do you seriously advocate the 'elimination' of all unsaved people? should be start rounding them up and have them shot?

please disprove that conclusion.

that is not what your sermon said.

Further I do not see any evidence that Hussain is a threat to the United States - certainly he is not a greater threat either to the United States or his own people than North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the like - do you advocate war against these regimes as well? if not then why not?

Where are the similarities? Hussein is not a Nazi, he does not believe in a master race, he is not Austrian, he does not have the industrial base or infrastructure to launch a war against pretty much anyone, he is not a direct threat to any western nation state etc etc

WWII is a total strawman - try actually refuting the points I have made rather than changing the issue.

I am sorry that I am so stupid, please enlighten me with a definition of evil that we can then apply to all other situations. I know that I am slow and it must be frustrating for you but if you could clearly outline your position perhaps I could understand - simply calling Hussein evil is not really helpful without a definition of evil - you have changed this from the sermon that you posted which claimed that

"To be blunt, those who follow God are good, those who choose to reject God are evil"

When I pointed out that this would include unsaved people, atheists and everyone not of your faith you then said that they are not evil and that we should not (as your sermon suggests) exterminate them.

Now you are arguing that we must kill Saddam because:

"the EVIL ones who are a threat to our national security and to their own country."

does this mean that you also argue for against the countries that I mention above?

I agree that Hussein is a monster, but he is no threat to the United States or Europe and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

let me repeat it for you - where is the evidence that Saddam is a threat to USA? where is the proof that he could attack the USA?

There is no such evidence - if there were the global community would support a war in a heartbeat.

- Nietzsche

[ March 07, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]

 

Agreed. We have no business being in the U.N. and the U.N. has no business being on our soil.

Withdraw and throw them out.

 

1. A man in your neighborhood [Saddam] viloently robs your good neighbor's [Kuwait] grocery store [oil industry] and threatens harm to your neighbor.

2. You [America] call the police [the UN] in an attempt to rescue your neighbor and his business.

3. The man starts shooting into another neighbor's house [Israel] but ceases fire and runs when he sees you and the brave men of the neighborhood [US allies] coming to rescue your neighbor.

4. The man realizes he doesn't have a chance of prevailing and so promises the police he will go home and stop buying guns and ammo.

5. The man goes home but keeps amassing guns and ammo.

6. When you and your posse decide to take the safety of the neighborhood into your own hands and disarm the man yourself, the police say, "give him more time" and the limp wrists in the neighborhood say,

"you are only doing this to protect the free flow of groceries."

7. The man tells the police that he has no guns then two weeks later throws out a couple of guns and says "see, I'm disarming." And the insanity goes on, and on.

I think any rational man would agree that this scenario should have stopped at #1.

Mark Osgatharp

 

InHim:

First of all; please stop referring to my post as MY SERMON, it was not even WRITTEN by me.

It is also NOT a sermon, it is a daily devotional and I gave credit to the author, (yes, I agree with him).

Secondly; I did not say you were stupid; those were YOUR words. I do not call people names.

Thirdly: Hitler and Hussein = EVIL.

Fourthly: Hussein is not a threat? Maybe you should have been listening to the U.N. meeting -live - just a few minutes ago instead of posting. Regular programming was disrupted so all could hear the latest. It was on all the channels.

Fifthly: It is YOU who does not have all the evidence and MY President is not obligated to provide you with such. Why let the enemy in on what we know or don't know? (Before you take offense, I am not speaking of YOU as the enemy).

Sixthly: I did not see any scripture in your reply to me either. I can quote scriptures where God TOLD people to go to war. Can you say, with certainty, that President Bush is not listening to God? He certainly spends much time in prayer.

Sometimes, when I read your posts on this subject; I wonder if YOU are praying about this subject and listening to what God has to say about it. (I am not saying you aren't, I am just wondering).

STANDING BEHIND MY PRESIDENT AND MY COUNTRY.
Sue

 

Good Post Mark!

I was just watching the Security Council's report on TV and Saddam is still NOT complying. This came directly from the UN inspectors.

Sue

 

But you posted it and have said that you agree with it - why are you dodging my questions about it?

once again, what is your definition of evil and what about those that are similiar to Hussein? should be declare war on all of them too?

I have just read it on the bbc:

source

this makes no sense at all - if there is evidence it should be presented.

I believe that God has led me to oppose a war in which thousands of innocent lives will be lost on the basis of no proof at all. I believe God has led me to oppose the destruction of the entire organisation of the international community on the basis of a non-existant and unproven threat.

 

But you posted it and have said that you agree with it - why are you dodging my questions about it?

***** Because you don't listen.

once again, what is your definition of evil and what about those that are similiar to Hussein? should be declare war on all of them too?

***** If they are a threat to my country, yes.

I have just read it on the bbc:

*****Blix's statement is in direct opposition to the statement Colin Powell is making as I write this...

this makes no sense at all - if there is evidence it should be presented.

***** Why does MY President owe you ANYTHING? You are not an American.

I believe that God has led me to oppose a war in which thousands of innocent lives will be lost on the basis of no proof at all. I believe God has led me to oppose the destruction of the entire organisation of the international community on the basis of a non-existant and unproven threat. </font>[/QUOTE]***** And I believe God has led me to support this war. Enough said!