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News: Now Where Do We Go?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Jun 21, 2003.

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  1. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Is this about eschatology or justice?

    If it is the former,then even the SBC 2000 statement of dogma is silent on the methodology.

    If it is about politics and justice, why is there concern about the eviction of illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, and not similar concern about the eviction of Palestinian families?

    SheEagle, do you have anything to say to those Palestinians who have been evicted, other than "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid God doesn't like you very much"?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #21 Matt Black, Jun 23, 2003
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    If it's not about eschatology, why do you guys keep bringing it up?

    Is it about justice as you proclaim?

    Well, then I would suggest the Palestinian people as a whole get rid of the terrorists and homicide bombers, dismantle Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Jihad, and al-Aqsa Martyr brigade, send Arafat back to Egypt where he came from and collectively work together to maintain peace with Israel.

    What your side doesn't seem to get in all the rhetoric, the point those who are for the Road Map just doesn't seem to get a grip on, is this isn't about a two-state solution.

    The ultimate Palestinian goal is to drive Jews into the sea. It is not a religion, it is a political movement with a dark agenda behind it, an ideology/religious/political movement which seeks to destroy ANY state of Israel. The polling among Palestinians proves this.

    The way they train their children from the time of birth to be homicide bombers, and the ultimate goal of Islamicizing the entire globe - somehow seems to be missed by those who defend the Palestinian cause.

    Did you even bother to read the article I posted above? It hits the nail on the head. Going after the little "satan" first is just a prelude to going for the "big" satan, the US, according to that religion.

    How many Palestinians have been "displaced" anyway? If they were "displaced" they would have been moved back to the Arab countries from whence they came, anyway. Which is what the original plan was long ago, around 1948. The Arabs were to leave and assimilate into the Arab countries, the Jews were to leave the Arab countries and assimilate into Israel. Only part of the plan took place which is why we are left with this problem lo these many years.

    It has been posted on many threads many times but some people refuse to see the truth.

    You can't make deals with terrorists. Period.
     
    #22 LadyEagle, Jun 23, 2003
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    So why did Jimmy Carter sit down and talk with Menachem Begin, then?

    It has been demonstrated on many recent threads that the Palestinians were displaced post 1948; furthermore that there are Palestinian families who can trace their ancestry in the land back to the time of Jesus. To turn your initial question on its head, where are they supposed to go? Israel already has 78% of former mandate territory - how much more should they be allowed to snatch and grab?


    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #23 Matt Black, Jun 24, 2003
  4. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Matt, what you just posted is a misrepresentation of the historical facts.

    Re: Jimmy Carter. He also recently visited Fidel Castro. So what's your point? A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist, no matter what and no matter who "thinks" they can broker a deal with them. Oh yes, Carter won a Nobel Peace Prize. Big deal. So did Arafat. :rolleyes:
     
    #24 LadyEagle, Jun 24, 2003
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Please show me how I have misrepresented the facts as you allege.

    My point was no about Carter, it was about Begin. I presume that as he was a former terrorist, you will condemn him as unreservedly as you do Hamas.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #25 Matt Black, Jun 24, 2003
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Speaking to the late Prime Minister, he and his organization the Irgun/Sten Gang were broken by Ben-Gurion and the Hagganah (I'll check on the spelling of that transliteration) or Regular Israeli Army. This occured early in the '48 War of Independence. The parallel would be if the Palestinian Authority would bring Hamas and the others under control so their side could speak with one voice. But then in '48, Ben-Gurion, et al had developed into a fully functional government with schools, clinics, ect. besides an army and security force.
     
    #26 Squire Robertsson, Jun 24, 2003
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I assume you are referring to the King David Hotel incident (as has been referred to in other threads) - which happened in 1946. If one must stretch that far back in time to obtain ONE incident to defend the Intifada, one is certainly doing a big stretch !! :rolleyes:

    But here again, British were warned before the bombing incident that there would be an incident. Unlike the Palestinian homicide bombers who give no such warning before they murder & maim thousands, yes, thousands of innocent Israeli civilians. Over 10,000 Israelis have been wounded & maimed for life from homicide bombings.

    http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/King_David.html


    Your ONE historical example hardly equates to the PRESENT and RECENT HISTORICAL murders and maimings committed by Islamic homicidal maniacs. Spare me. [​IMG]
     
    #27 LadyEagle, Jun 24, 2003
  8. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, Squire. The modern parallel would be if my lot had remained in Palestine post-48, confining Ben Gurion to house arrest,preventing the nascent IDF from organising, and demolishing and launching rocket attacks on Jewish settlements every time the Irgun Zwai Leumi committed an atrocity.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #28 Matt Black, Jun 24, 2003
  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    The point, SheEagle, of all of this is in no way to defend Hamas or the so-called Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade but to point out that quite a few former terrorists have gone on to be quite respectable heads of state - Begin, Mandela, De Valera - and even peacemakers in some cases. Sure, there are going to be extremists on the Palestinian side who are going to want to eliminate Israel just as there are going to be extreme Zionists who want to attain ersetz Israel and expel all non-Jews from that territory, but most terrorists, like De Valera, Arafat, or Begin are - and this is not to excuse their modus operandi - desperate people who feel forced to resort to desperate measures who, when the desperate circumstances in which they find themselves are removed, settle down. We should therefore be praying and working for the removal of those desperate circumstances.

    YOurs in Christ

    Matt
     
    #29 Matt Black, Jun 24, 2003
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I am soooo disappointed in you, SheEagle9/11. Now it sounds like you are defending terrorism, albeit by Jews, as long as they announce it ahead of time. [​IMG]
     
    #30 KenH, Jun 24, 2003
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Sorry you're disappointed. The target at King David Hotel was British troops, not civilians. Efforts were made to spare civilians. One could reasonably argue that it was a military maneuver against a military.

    Unlike the present Palestinian terrorists who kill and target random civilians, women, and children.

    Your line of reasoning would be along the same line as by Al-Qaeda to fly planes into the Twin Towers. That is what is truly disappointing. [​IMG]
     
    #31 LadyEagle, Jun 24, 2003
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Again, a major disappointment. [​IMG] So you evidently believe it was alright for Jewish terrorists to kill British soldiers. Would it have been alright with you if those had been U.S. soldiers instead of British soldiers? [​IMG]

    You know, the more I hear extreme dispensationals expound, the more I am concerned that at least this extreme form of dispensationalism is theologically bankrupt, besides the idea that I believe it is a false eschatology. :(
     
    #32 KenH, Jun 24, 2003
  13. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I just love how some people twist things around to suit their own purposes. :rolleyes: Even if it means stooping to bring up ONE historical fact that is hardly relevent to the thread.

    It is truly a disappointment that you read more into my post than what I indeed posted. [​IMG]

    It is also VERY disappointing that you cannot get away from your (straw man) dispensational allegations, no matter what. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #33 LadyEagle, Jun 24, 2003
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Never mind, SheEagle9/11, just never mind. [​IMG]
     
    #34 KenH, Jun 24, 2003
  15. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    OK, then. Now that nothing got solved in this thread & it is on page 3, this thread will be closed no sooner than 3:00 a.m. ET. :D

    SheEagle911
    Moderator

    :D
     
    #35 LadyEagle, Jun 24, 2003
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Speaking for the moment as an amateur miltary historian (and I do mean amateur), I make this comment on l'affaire d'Hotel King David. As headquarters for British operations in the Mandate, the King David Hotel was a legitimate military target. Its destruction is not a good parallel to the homicide bombings of civilians by Hamas and the others of that group's ilk.

    But, again laying aside any theological prejudices, what short of the disappearence of the Jewish State will satisfy Hamas and the others?
     
    #36 Squire Robertsson, Jun 25, 2003
  17. Eyes on Jesus

    Eyes on Jesus Member

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    Ken H, it was not a conditional covenant that God gave the land to the Jewish people by, it was given to them by a promise.
     
    #37 Eyes on Jesus, Jun 25, 2003
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    So, I ask again, what 'Good News' do we have for the Palestinians living in 'the Land', other than, "Um, I'm sorry, but I'm afraid God doesn't like you very much"?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
    #38 Matt Black, Jun 25, 2003
  19. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    The Good News is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Becoming a new creation through the shed Blood of Jesus Christ is the way to be free from the spiritual and ideological bondage of homicide bombing groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

    That being said, this thread is now closed as per the prior notice. [​IMG]

    SheEagle911
    Moderator
     
    #39 LadyEagle, Jun 25, 2003
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