News: Pres. Bush WH Ramadan Dinner Speech to Muslims/Powell

InHim2002 · Nov 21, 2002

er?

so a very minority are going to kill the large majority?

do you have any examples from history where this has happened - remember the ratio here is around 50000 : 1

InHim, in the end, when World Domination is sought & achieved
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seeking to achieve something and actually achieving it are very different things are they not?

[ November 21, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]

JonHenry · Nov 21, 2002

A believer who nods his head to other religions by praising & lauding them is in trouble. He may not be in the temple bowing down, but he is in the lobby shaking hands!

JH

Johnv · Nov 21, 2002

OBL, btw, was indeed from Saudi Arabia, but the inference that Saudi Arabia and/or the Grand Mufti supported his actions is false.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979, he went to Pakistan, where he met the Afghan rebel leaders fighting against the occupation. When he returned he collected money and supplies for the Afghan resistance, the mujahedin. He made further trips, delivering aid and arms, spending more time in Afghanistan, where he became involved in gun battles with the Soviets.

As a wealthy Saudi, he stood out and acquired a following. Other Arabs, Egyptians, Lebanese, Turks and others joined their Afghan Muslim brothers in the struggle against a Soviet ideology that spurned religion (something the US supported).

Bin Laden opened a camp in Peshawar for Arab mujahedin fighters. Eventually, their numbers became so large that Osama Bin Laden built camps for them inside Afghanistan. He gave the umbrella group for his camps a name: al-Qaeda, Arabic for "the base".

The Afghan resistance against the Soviet army was backed with US dollars and had the blessing of the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. After the Soviet withdrawal, the "Arab Afghans" (as Bin Laden's faction came to be called) looked forward to a warm welcome at home. But Bin Laden quickly became disillusioned by the lack of recognition for his achievements. This turned to anger when his offer to provide an army of mujahedin to defend the kingdom after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, was turned down. Instead, half a million US soldiers were invited onto Saudi soil, a betrayal in Bin Laden's eyes.

Never a wholehearted supporter of the Saudi regime, Bin Laden now became an out-and-out opponent and began to direct his efforts against the US and its allies in the Middle East. In 1991 Bin Laden was expelled because of his anti-government activities. He spent the next five years in Sudan, where he used his money to fund a number of infrastructure projects for the Islamist government in Khartoum. After vain attempts to get Bin Laden to abandon his militant involvement, the Saudi Government froze his bank accounts and stripped him of his Saudi citizenship.

The US put pressure on the Sudan to expel him, prompting Bin Laden's return to Afghanistan. As he felt himself under more pressure, Bin Laden became more messianic and radical. By the mid-1990s, he was calling for a global war against all Americans and Jews and in 1998, he issued his famous fatwa (religious ruling), amounting to a declaration of war against the US. This is interesting, since Bin Laden has no clerical power or authority. As such, his fatwa has been generally denounced by the majority of countries with a Muslim population.

LadyEagle · Nov 21, 2002

InHim: er?

so a very minority are going to kill the large majority?

do you have any examples from history where this has happened - remember the ratio here is around 50000 : 1
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Islam, being a "Theocracy", is against any form of "democracy" so cannot adapt well to our Western Free Society. If we encourage Islam to take root in our modern, civilized communities, sooner or later there will be a clash, because Islam cannot tolerate any rule, law, custom or thought which is at variance with what is written in the Qur’an.

Islam is a violent, political force functioning in the name of "religion" but aggressively dedicated to "Total World Domination" and must eradicate every trace of influence spread by "Unbelievers and Infidels".

As I type this, on the island of Borneo, in Indonesia, about 50,000 non-Muslims are surrounded by "Jihad" warriors, who are determined to Islamize the area in the name of the god, Allah. In the last two years, about 10,000 Christians have been killed by these "religious" fanatics who also, have forcibly converted about 8000 Christians to Islam.

It appears that a blood-bath is imminent. In Islamic countries, one can receive a death sentence for converting any Muslim to the Christian Faith, however, If a Muslim renounces his / her faith, the sentence, according to the "holy" Qur’an is DEATH.

http://www.webspawner.com/users/islamforf/
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“In Germany a Turkish woman said, within one generation, Europe will live completely under the Islamic law. In Paris a North African sheikh told France over television, to convert immediately to Islam, otherwise it will have to be converted to Allah and be islamized by force.
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"In the north of Nigeria during the past ten years, during 13 waves of persecutions, [Muslims] have killed at least 50,000 Christians, they burned down 200 church buildings and killed about 20 ministers and evangelists.

Whoever is enthusiastic about the tolerance of the Muslims, should travel to these Islamic countries and live there several months with the native Christians, then he will quickly lose his illusions. The spirit of Islam always fights against the spirit of Jesus Christ in his congregations, as long as the Muslims there are in the majority.
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"The oppression and persecution against the Christians in north Nigeria, in the South Sudan, in Egypt, in Lebanon, in Iran, in Pakistan and Indonesia hardly seems to have entered the consciousness of the congregations of Jesus in Europe, the USA and Korea.
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During Islam's early period, Muslim zeal sparked rapid religious and political expansion by peaceful conversion and violent conquest.

This drive was led at first by Arabs, then by Ottoman Turks and other Muslim dynasties. At their farthest, the boundaries of Muslim domination encompassed the Middle East, North Africa, southwestern Asia to the Ganges River, Spain, and central Europe to just south of Vienna.
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The existence of alive native [Christian] churches annoys Islam. Theoretically, Christians have the right, to meet as Christians within their church walls. According to the Qur’an, no one can force them, to accept Islam (Sura 5.47-48). But the tax load and the social contempt [scorn] however has forced 90 to 99 per cent of the Christians in the islamized Mediterranean countries (from Turkey to Morocco), to accept Islam. Only minorities, from one half to ten per cent of the population, have remained faithful to their belief, despite different waves of persecutions in the past 1365 years.
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"In Indonesia [Muslims] have during the last two years systematically smashed the windows in 1.500 church buildings. Several hundreds church buildings they have burned down.
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http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/007248179x/student_view0/chapter5/a_further_note_1.html

http://hanskrause.de/islam5.htm

~~~~~~

InHim, then there is Pakistan which used to be part of India. And Kashmir.

There is Afghanistan in which a few, the Taleban & Arabs & war lords, dominated & abused the majority of the people, as I staed previously.

And the countries of Africa, falling like dominoes.

There are your history examples. These historical cases aren't in the annals of history because of "moderate" Muslims.

Europe & America are on their way to Islamic domination, and that is the Fundamentalist goal....world domination. More later.

InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

sheeagle:

here are my comments:

InHim, in the end, when World Domination is sought & achieved, there can be no such thing as a "moderate Muslim."
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seeking and achieving are two totally seperate things, what evidence is there that they are achieving world domination?

The fanatics are increasing in numbers & strength.
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what evidence do you have for this? how are 'fanatics' being defined? an editorial from wnd is not evidence - I want to see the data itself - who is conducting research into this area anyway?

This sounds like a great piece of retoric but I very much doubt that there is any sort of hard data to support this assertion.

Get the facts. Look at the nations in Africa, falling one by one like dominoes, Islamic jihad warriors killing impoverished, fellow 'moderate' Muslims by the thousands, fueled by the OBLs and diamond trade and the WEALTHY.
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which nations in Africa? and how are they 'falling'? some facts for you:

Regardless of religious orientation, an average of more than seven out of ten people in four African countries say they support democracy. Some 71 percent of Muslims and 76 percent of non-Muslims agree that, "democracy is preferable to any other form of government."

This result is driven by the case of Nigeria, where commitments to democracy among African Muslims are weakest. Once broken down by country, the data reveal that Muslims in Uganda and Mali express more support for democracy than non-Muslims. And the two religious groupings are equally supportive of democracy in Tanzania. Especially on the Zanzibar islands, Tanzanian Muslims say they long for honest elections and for political representation by leaders of their choice
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source

Since the end of colonialism Africa has hardly been a model of democracy has it? You are arguing that we can draw direct comparisons between the political systems of the world richest and poorest nations?

Look at Afghanistan and how Muslims treated fellow Muslims under the Taleban. Look how the people were starving!
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and? look at Europe during the second world war - christians killing christains!

InHim, think you're safe there in the U.K.? Or I'm safe in America?
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safe from what?

In Germany a Turkish woman said, within one generation, Europe will live completely under the Islamic law.
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A Turkish woman! wow! now that is a credible source!

In Paris a North African sheikh told France over television, to convert immediately to Islam, otherwise it will have to be converted to Allah and be islamized by force
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wow! I didn't realise this was happening a 'North African sheikh' said this - well there are two revered experts in the field are they not - how can anyone dispute what the turkish woman and the North African sheikh have said?

In the north of Nigeria during the past ten years, during 13 waves of persecutions, [Muslims] have killed at least 50,000 Christians, they burned down 200 church buildings and killed about 20 ministers and evangelists.

Whoever is enthusiastic about the tolerance of the Muslims, should travel to these Islamic countries and live there several months with the native Christians, then he will quickly lose his illusions. The spirit of Islam always fights against the spirit of Jesus Christ in his congregations, as long as the Muslims there are in the majority
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once again we see the actions and views of a violent minority being used to demonise the majority - this is the exact same type of 'evidence' that you presented before sheeagle!

During Islam's early period, Muslim zeal sparked rapid religious and political expansion by peaceful conversion and violent conquest
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and?

the same can be said of the crusades, the inquisition, the conquest of the new world by Cortes etc etc

In Indonesia [Muslims] have during the last two years systematically smashed the windows in 1.500 church buildings. Several hundreds church buildings they have burned down
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and? the minority do not represent the majority do they?

InHim, then there is Pakistan which used to be part of India. And Kashmir
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er? are you arguing that Pakistan is ruled by a Moslim government? or ever has been?

And the countries of Africa, falling like dominoes
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which countries and what timeframe? what percentage of all countries on the African continent are mosilm?

Europe & America are on their way to Islamic domination, and that is the Fundamentalist goal....world domination. More later.
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so you, the Turkish woman and the North African have said - however I see no evidence at all for your claim. I think you logic is best summed up:

- some Christians shoot doctors that perform abortions therefore all christians shoot doctors therefore doctors are the enemy of christianity

LadyEagle · Nov 22, 2002

InHim, I have given you plenty of links and excerpts which you choose to ignore or try to denigrate.

Once again, you seek to defend Islam instead of recognizing the danger it represents for the civilized world and Christianity! The Internet is full of information and the goal of Islam is world domination, which you refuse to believe. So your mind is already made up. One can only wonder why you continuously defend a false relgion which is anti-Christ.

Are you Muslim?

Your arguments are easily blown over by the facts. The facts remain facts.

Today, Who is responsible for the majority of gruesome terrorist attacks taking place all over the world? Muslim extremists.

Today, who is responsible for taking over countries, slaughtering innocent men, women, and children, even fellow Muslims? Muslim extremists.

Today, who has the main objective of world domination? Muslim extremists.

Today, who is responsible for persecuting and murdering Christians all over the world? Muslim extremists.

SheEagle:Exactly. Wonder how long it will be before the US becomes a Muslim nation? One only needs to read history to figure out the M.O.
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InHim:could you please point me to historical instances of Muslims changing liberal, democractic, christian societies into Muslim ones'?
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ISRAEL, for starters, though they have not achieved their goal of driving Israel into the sea! I have given you examples in my previous posts. You ignore these.

FACTS TO CONSIDER:

“In the world mission of Islam they operate with all the means of a worldly theocracy. Finances, economics, media, politics and war, as well as family and school are serving Islam. They have infiltrated important companies in Europe and the USA with oil-dollars.[ (14 per cent of Daimler Benz belongs to Kuwait, 49 per cent of Krupp to the Iran and 25 per cent of the Höchst AG to a consortium of OPEC States).

The oil producing countries take over parts of the national indebts, and they influence politically the debtor nations. Banks changed their owner, and fertile landed estates they have bought up. Again they are teaching now the Arabic language throughout the world, and they are learning the Koran by heart. Islamic universities arise in London, Moscow, Peking, Seoul, Khartoum and in other centers of the non-Islamic world. Whoever becomes a Muslim, can get a scholarship. (why?)

“In the USA and in Australia they are increasing their efforts, to buy up large landed estates, to establish Islamic centers. and employ in universities and prisons Muslim preachers. The first Imam was sworn in in 1993 for the military in the USA. An Islamic prince got the privilege, to proclaim from the roof of the White House 'Allahu akbar' over Washington and to begin a meeting of the American congress with an Islamic prayer. (why?)

“When establishing a new Islamic community, the Muslims will often try, to win the chieftain of the tribe or the highest one of the clan for themselves. As soon as he has been converted, he will arrange his tribe or clan according to Islamic principles. Therefore the whole tribe will soon accept Islam. Everyone, who later on will try to leave Islam again, must be re-educated, punished or be killed by his own family. In Islam, the family is responsible, to see to it that each one of them remains faithful to his religion. It is forbidden to leave Islam and must be punished hard.” Abd al-Masih (1998: 7) (why?)

“In the West, Muslim immigrants, immigrant worker and students demand ever larger religious privileges. And sometimes they perform in the streets of the capitals, under police protection, Islamic demonstrations. They buy transmitting times from broadcast and TV organizations and use media, to advance their cause. They organize public discussions and debates, provoke Christian high-level personnel, who are often poorly prepared and who know nothing about the real Islam, and defeat them. (why?)

Some Muslims marry Christian women with the intention of converting them to their faith. In many cities they are building their mosques with tall minarets and train locally missionaries, who are to convert then liberal Christian, for whom the Bible is no authority anymore.” Abd al-Masih (1998: 66-69)

Demographic infiltration of America and Europe

Victor Mordecai: “I do see an Islamic population migration, which will play in all western countries in the future a large role. It will be fed from two sources. As mentioned above, the tyranny of fanatic-Islamic governments is so bad that millions of Muslims have fled into the West, in order to be able to lead a more endurable life. The higher standard of living of the West exerts thereby a large attraction.

“In America, Muslims are now the third-strongest religious community after the Protestants and Catholics. Jews are there only an infinitesimal minority with five million. The 14 million Muslims make up there already more than five percent of the American population. In France the portion of the Muslims of the total population is now nearly ten percent.

“These Muslims immigrate inconspicuously into their new adopted country. At first they do accept and respect the laws and traditions of the country, in which they now live, without causing any sensation (stir). But their birth rate far exceeds that of their Christian and Jewish neighbors. And their number swells through the tide of Muslim refugees. So they will grow up into a considerable minority with an increasing constituency (people who vote). These votes the politicians cannot ignore. (IF NOT GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION, THEN WHY?)

“The second factor, which promotes this development, is this: The oil-tycoons of the Middle East do corrupt the universities in the USA and in Europe by their sponsoring activity. When universities have accepted money, they are powerless and must issue the visas or 'green cards', with which each year thousands of new students come into the western countries. (WHY)?

“One may argue about it, whether behind this development there is a secret plan of Islamic leaders, whereby within a few decades Islamic minorities will be created, which cannot be ignored, in order to affect or to control the originally Christian countries. Essential is here that already considerable Muslim communities do exist and that they represent a threat. This threat will increase in the course of time and will be directed against the earlier traditions, which prevailed there before the Islamic invasion. (NO WORLD DOMINATION GOAL? THEN WHY?)

“When these students have arrived at American and European universities, many of them decide, to remain in their host countries in order to conclude there their study. They accept the nationality of these countries, marry Christian women from their environment and join the combat-force of the Islamic invasion in America and Europe.” Victor Mordecai (1999: 70, 71).

“If such pairs return to America, many of the Muslim men remain with their American wives. Many of the women convert to Islam and contribute so to the growth of this fastest increasing group in America and worldwide. These newly converted Muslims form at first only a small, calm minority. Then however they begin to fight for their right to vote. Later they want to be heard and they will try to convince their fellow men that they should accept more and more Islamic laws. And finally this will lead to the aggressive, changed form of Islamistic activities. To this also belongs the suppressing of any criticism of the Koran. These critical voices they will silence, if possible, by buying them, and where this cannot be done, by threats, use of force or even murder.

“The last threat for America and the West consists of the fact that fundamentalist Islam wants to abolish the freedom of the press, since it, in contrast to Judaism and Christianity, tries to silence everything, which is critical towards Islam. Later on, when the Muslims form 20, 30 or more percent of the population, they could use the American democracy, as Hitler used conditions in the Weimar Republic, to come to power. Or they may appear as political wire-pullers within the democratic system, in order to undermine democracy from within, since it cannot be brought with Islam and its teachings into agreement. And all this could happen within one or two decades.

Treatment of Christians in Muslim Countries:

"They are not permitted to missionize Muslims [convert them to the Christian faith]. Even if only one member of a [Christian] congregation missionizes [preaches] among Muslims, the whole congregation must be punished. This is one of the reasons, why some church leaders in Islamic countries will themselves report overactive evangelists or missionaries to the secret police, punish [reprimand] their own priests, remove them [from their office] or deport them into a foreign country.

"But the modern media do not know any borders, and many Muslims travel now into a godless country. As a result, more and more Muslims begin now to read the Gospel. Also now, native Churches still are not allowed to repair their church buildings or erect new ones.

SOURCE:

http://hanskrause.de/islam5.htm

http://www.persecution.org

May your eyes be opened to the truth found only in Jesus Christ, InHim.

InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

what are you talking about?

oh - that's right - extremists that, by your own admission, are unrepresentative of the majority.

what is the problem again?

Today, Who is responsible for the majority of gruesome terrorist attacks taking place all over the world?
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extremists - I agree - what do these people have to do with Muslims in general?

Today, who is responsible for taking over countries, slaughtering innocent men, women, and children, even fellow Muslims?
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which countries? come on, cough up some examples.

Today, who has the main objective of world domination?
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as does just about every religious group - so what?

having an objective and achieving that objective are very different things - would you not agree?

anyhow the central point is - why do you continue to insist that actions of a minority are reflective of the beliefs of the majority?

- for all the hundreds of lines in this thread you have provided no reason for any rational person to accept your argument that the minority are reflective of the majority.

Are you Muslim?
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InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

some more comments:

InHim, I have given you plenty of links and excerpts which you choose to ignore or try to denigrate.
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your links cite two 'experts' - a turkish woman and a north african - both unnamed. Looks to me that they are scraping the barrel - are there any actual academics that support your position?

in order to be able to lead a more endurable life. The higher standard of living of the West exerts thereby a large attraction.
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I think a higher standard of living would exert a tremendous attraction anyway - how many christians migrate to the west?

their birth rate far exceeds that of their Christian and Jewish neighbors. And their number swells through the tide of Muslim refugees. So they will grow up into a considerable minority with an increasing constituency (people who vote). These votes the politicians cannot ignore. (IF NOT GOAL OF WORLD DOMINATION, THEN WHY?)
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sorry? the goal of reproduction is word domination? are you suggesting that this is an organised conspiracy of some sort?

The second factor, which promotes this development, is this: The oil-tycoons of the Middle East do corrupt the universities in the USA and in Europe by their sponsoring activity. When universities have accepted money, they are powerless and must issue the visas or 'green cards', with which each year thousands of new students come into the western countries. (WHY)?
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universities do not issue green cards or visas - the governments of these countries do. Why do they come to the West to study? I have no idea, perhaps to experience a different culture? oh I forgot - it is because they are part of a huge global conspiracy OF EVIL to KILL ALL CHRISTIANS

One may argue about it, whether behind this development there is a secret plan of Islamic leaders, whereby within a few decades Islamic minorities will be created, which cannot be ignored, in order to affect or to control the originally Christian countries.
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that is barely english - anyhow - yes one could argue that but one would be very foolish to try and do so.

If this conspiracy exists then where is the evidence? - oh I forget, there is the turkish woman.

Essential is here that already considerable Muslim communities do exist and that they represent a threat.
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that is just plain, straightforward racism.

what threat do they represent outside of this ludicrious conspiracy theory?

When these students have arrived at American and European universities, many of them decide, to remain in their host countries in order to conclude there their study. They accept the nationality of these countries, marry Christian women from their environment and join the combat-force of the Islamic invasion in America and Europe
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this is deeply offensive, racist rubbish - what evidence is there that this is the case? once again you make the mistake of equating the views of the extreme minority with all musilms.

The last threat for America and the West consists of the fact that fundamentalist Islam wants to abolish the freedom of the press, since it, in contrast to Judaism and Christianity, tries to silence everything, which is critical towards Islam. Later on, when the Muslims form 20, 30 or more percent of the population, they could use the American democracy, as Hitler used conditions in the Weimar Republic, to come to power
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ah - all muslims are Nazis then - sheEagle: why are you wasting your time reading this racist rubbish?

simply put the author here has started with a premise (ie muslims are evil) and then scrabbled around trying to find evidence - when he cannot he tries to fill the gap with racist rethoric and FUD. Hardly a solid basis for a reasoned debate - and you believe this is true? that there is this huge global conspiracy? why?

Many of the women convert to Islam and contribute so to the growth of this fastest increasing group in America and worldwide. These newly converted Muslims form at first only a small, calm minority. Then however they begin to fight for their right to vote. Later they want to be heard and they will try to convince their fellow men that they should accept more and more Islamic laws. And finally this will lead to the aggressive, changed form of Islamistic activities
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they want a vote!?! that is clear evidence that they are evil isn't it? they want to be able to try and convert people to their religion?!?! where do they think that they live? america?

Son of Consolation · Nov 22, 2002

It seems to me that most people are familiar with the ways of Islam, so there is nothing new to us in the above posts. Having said that, we have to remember that we cannot expalin away their ways by referring to extremism, for to them it is no extremism at all but a way of life. Therefore, Islam is more of a form of government than a religion.

BTW, I am more surprised to see the ways of Islam being defended by alledged Baptist brethren, who, for the sake of a better word, sound like Moslem Apologists to me.

InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

It seems to me that most people are familiar with the ways of Islam, so there is nothing new to us in the above posts.
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The idea that all muslims are secretly plotting to kill all christians is a new idea to me.

Having said that, we have to remember that we cannot expalin away their ways by referring to extremism, for to them it is no extremism at all but a way of life. Therefore, Islam is more of a form of government than a religion.
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this is where I am stuck - are you saying that there is no difference between those who fly planes into buildings and the guy that runs my local corner shop?

Because they certainly don't seem the same to me.

BTW, I am more surprised to see the ways of Islam being defended by alledged Baptist brethren, who, for the sake of a better word, sound like Moslem Apologists to me.
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I assume you are referring to me?

I am only 'alleged' baptist now?

I am not a moslim apologist - I simply don't buy the ridiculous conspiracy theory that sheeagle is arguing - do you?

why does my questioning of this make me any less baptist? Frankly I am getting upset at the continued accusations of my being a troll/non-baptist/etc simply because I refuse to swallow whatever theories those who shout loudest advocate - you can look up who I am - why not do that and give me a ring to discuss this?

[ November 22, 2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]

Squire Robertsson · Nov 22, 2002

As this thread looks like it will quickly go to a third page, if this post doesn't do it the next reply will, I am issuing the six hour third page warning. We have gone far afield from the initial post regarding the President's speech at a Ramadan event. It is now 930a PST/1230p Board Time. Either Brother Murphy or I will close this thread No Earlier Than 330pPST/630p Board Time.
In His Service,
Robertsson

[ November 22, 2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

Son of Consolation · Nov 22, 2002

InHim2002, if the shirt doesn't fit, then please don't wear it. By the way, I would appreciate it if you would not take my statements apart, psychoanalyze the same, and then change their meanings. I could do the same with your post, but that is not the goal here, and I for one refuse to engage in a game of this sort.

I like to think that I am a direct man, so I am not going to analyze what you have said, but rather focus on the essence of my previous statement. When we referring to the teachings of Islam, there cannot be any mistake about it, the Qur'an specifically spells it out that anyone leaving Islam and converts to another religion has to be killed. The Qur'an also encourages the followers to kill the Jews and Christians. Need we say then why they do not tolerate any other religion in Moslem countries? That is why I said, Islam is more of a form of government than a form of religion.

Now when we refer to the average Jo, who is a faithful follower of Islam but is not well versed in the Qur'an, where will we put him? This fellow could live next door to you, if you will. Well, we have to put him into the same category as we put Roman Catholics. I am sure there are millions of Catholics who never read the Bible, and they wouldn't know if Matthew was the brother of Moses or one of the champions of King David. They are followers, like sheep, and they are sincere in their belief, but they are sincerely lost and they are in need of a Savior. The bottom line is, they need the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord! But there is a dilemma here when we refer to Moslems. How can I share the Good News to the followers of Moslem if they do not allow freedom of religion in their countries, and where the adherents to Islam would rather kill you first and then ask the question later?

The Squire, I am sorry if I have wondered away from the topic of this thread, but whenever there is a subject being introduced, which deals directly with Islam, it is impossible not to focus on the teachings of this world religion (or rather should I say, form of government).

[ November 22, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]

InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

Barnabas - you called me an 'alleged' baptist - what did you mean by that?, further do you agree with sheeagle that all muslims are engaged in a global conspiracy to kill all christians?

if the shirt doesn't fit, then please don't wear it.
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so I should reject logical thought in favour of ridiculous conspiracy theories?

frankly - you have accused me of not being a baptist because I disagree with sheeagle - you really should address this - you can find out my name/address easily - now either ban me or apologise.

[ November 22, 2002, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]

LadyEagle · Nov 22, 2002

Thank you, The Squire for holding this thread open so I can post closing comments (heavy work load today so didn't have a chance before now).

Thank you, Barnabas, for your comments. You hit the nail right on the head, like usual!

InHim, I have inundated you with facts and links and those links have links, yet you will not see. I will no longer engage in posting games with you. The information is all over the Internet and you know it.

This thread is about the religious/political institution of Islam which is seeking to infiltrate my government and government policies. In searching the web, there is a White House office which President Bush created for outreach to the Muslim community. When I find out more, I will post the information.

InHim, as I recall, you didn't seem to be too concerned about the Islamic terrorist threads originating from the U.S. and U.K., either. (Which I posted about in another thread awhile back.)

Some people will keep their heads buried in the sand, I suppose. And that is certainly your right.

But I refuse to not see the handwriting on the wall, and will continue to protest actions or inaction done by my government to protect and defend the borders of my country as mandated by the US Constitution or any move by elected officials which seeks to sell out the Judeo-Christian principles on which this country was founded either out of fear or because of political correctness.

Democracy and Islam are diametrically opposed.

InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

can you address my points or not sheeagle?

Son of Consolation · Nov 22, 2002

InHim2002, I deduced from your posts and general reasoning that you are an intelligent man. So it is not going to be hard for you to accept my premise that since we do not know each other, we are in fact total strangers on this board. In fact, until I prove myself otherwise, I will remain an "alleged" Baptist to you. And in like manner you to me. Although this will remain an undisputed fact, nevertheless if my previous words were offending you, I sincerely apologize.

Having said that, I believe that a Baptist person have to adhere to Baptistic views and doctrines. And even though at times one Baptist may not see eye to eye with another, nevertheless they ought to agree on the fundamental tenets of the Bible - don't you agree?

Now going back to your last question about SheEagle911, I believe that she has a valid concern there. Simply, because I know what the Qur'an teaches. And whether those teachings are enforced by a narrow band of fundamental Moslems, it is irrelevant. The fact to the matter is that in the teachings of Islam the dominion of the world has a center stage. And whether we believe it or not, since the tragic occurrence of September 11, the Moslem world is desperately trying to mend the fence - presenting themselves as peace loving and wholesome. So much so, that even our liberal media picked up this trend and is trying to force feed it down our throats ever since.

Now, our government, including our President, following the 911 event, has been trying desperately to separate the fundamental extremists from the general Moslem adherents. As I see it (and I could be wrong) this had two-fold purpose. On the one hand our government did not want people go out and beat up on folks just because they dress different and follow a strict discipline of their choosing. This was a noble endeavor indeed, because a lot of innocent people could have been hurt in the process. On the other hand our government did not want to alienate the "friendly" Moslems by grouping them together with the extremists, obviously with the intent of getting these folks march behind the shocked world in seeking some kind of peaceful resolution. This also was a noble effort. Now the inception of this thread was dealing with this second part of this two-fold objective of our government - and I am afraid sometime people do not see the greater picture.

My contribution to this controversy was simply the sharp definition between the teachings of Islam and that of Bible believing Christians. To me there can be no mistake about the sharp contrast between the two. Trust that I made my position clearer at this time. It was a pleasure to exchange words with you InHim2002, for thereby we have moved closer in knowing each other a little better. God bless!

InHim2002 · Nov 22, 2002

Barnabas:

I thank you for your apology - I have been feeling more than a little persecuted on this board of late and my paranoia has not been productive.

My position stands - I do not believe that, as sheeagle says, all moslims are engaged in a conspiracy. I pray that they recieve Jesus.

[ November 22, 2002, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]

LadyEagle · Nov 22, 2002

InHim: I do not believe that, as sheeagle says, all moslims are engaged in a conspiracy.
Click to expand...

That's not what I said, InHim.

I pray that they recieve Jesus.
Click to expand...

Me, too.

Don't feel persecuted & paranoid. Jesus loves you & so do we.

C.S. Murphy · Nov 22, 2002

I opened this back up just long enough to congratulate all parties. When I left at 5:30 to attend my son's birthday dinner I was concerned because the tone was a little harsh. When I returned I fully expected it to have accelerated but thanks be to God it ended on a positive note or actually note's. Thanks again
Murph

[ November 22, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

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