News: SARS, the fake and manufactured epidemic?

[Peter101]

>>>>>Now, would anyone care to tell me how SARS is different from flu?<<<<<

It causes an atypical type of pneumonia, which flu does not, normally. The death rate from SARS is at least 50 times greater. And it appears to be caused by a different and entirely new virus. Other than that, some symptoms are similar to the flu. But those differences are very important. Many SARS victims need mechanical help in breathing, which is another difference from common flu.

 

[Helen]

Peter, baloney.

It's flu.

Reference yourself. Your word is no better than a Mother Goose fairy tale without giving some kind of back-up to yourself, especially when you have been asked so many times and avoided it so many times.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Helen:
Joseph, I'm 55. I was born at 4:08 a.m. the morning of February 29, 1948. I graduated from high school in the famous year of 1965 (near Berkeley, even!), and from college in 1972 (I took a couple of years off in the middle and worked with horses in Lancaster, California).

Wow. You just don't look that old. Amazing. So you graduated from a high school close to Berkeley. I would say that the best graduate I have ever heard of from that college would be Michael Savage.

And then you graduated from college in '72. Wow. I was born in '72... Which college did you attend and what was your degree? I am assuming that it was a Bachelor degree since you mention that you graduated only once from college. What was your major?

Also, What colleges have you been a guest lecturer for and what were the topics? I am really curious. I would like to learn more about you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Helen]

Joseph, this is not a thread about Helen, but about SARS.

What's wrong with the questions both the article and I asked about this epidemic?

 

[Peter101]

>>>>>Peter, baloney.

It's flu.

Reference yourself. Your word is no better than a Mother Goose fairy tale without giving some kind of back-up to yourself, especially when you have been asked so many times and avoided it so many times.<<<<<
................................................
The death rate compared to flu, I calcualted myself, but the other information is from the web sites of the World Health Organization and the National Center for Disease Control. Apparently you are setting yourself up as knowing more about SARS than these professional organizations. You can try that if you want, but I doubt if you will be believed. You have always been vague about your exact academic background. I suspect that it is simply an ordinary degree in secondary education, isn't that correct?

 

[Helen]

I referenced my claims. Reference yours.

My background? Oh, I'm a kindergarten dropout, too, who taught myself to read and write. Let's just figure that and go from there, OK? Your attacks on me personally are bizarre and inconsequential. I am not important. Let's discuss the material about SARS, OK?

ANYTHING can be 'calculated' from the web. Give me your demographic references please. Without them your claims have no meaning at all besides gossip.

ITM, please research the past influenza epidemics and the MILLIONS who died and tell me this is any different.

edit: actually, that's not quite true. I'm a first-grade drop-out. Only went one semester to first grade. Teaching myself to read and write is the truth, though...

2nd edit: interesting note: I was curious about the demographics and checked the charts at the World Health Organization webpage -- none on China or Taiwan.

So how on earth anyone can claim a 50 times greater death rate from SARS becomes extremely interesting!

Greater than WHAT, Peter? And where? And when? And who? And what months of the year?

Come on -- get behind your claims (and personally I don't care what your educational background is, as I am not nearly as curious about you as you are about me), and let us know how you arrived at your ideas.

[ May 10, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

[Jim1999]

Our experience with SARS in Toronto indicated that this virus was different to common influenza. Our action here was to isolate the cases as a means of containing its spread. The spread was successfully contaned to only those who had direct contact with SARS victims who were in contact with the original case.

All those who died in Canada were over 60 years of age, originally, and suffered from other ailments, such as upper respiratory problems.

Despite the bad press, SARS has not been a National dilemma. In fact, more people die every year from upper respiratory illnesses.

Where the one health worker, who was later identified with SARS, rode the public transit with direct contact, for two successive days before she was isolated and diagnosed. Not one of the other passengers came down with evne symptoms, let alone SARS.

The virus has since been isolated, but is still a scientific mystery. They believe it is only spread by direct flesh contact, or someone sneezing or otherwise passing on the virus directly.

The notion that an entertainer could be exposed to SARS in a crowd of say 10,000 fans is so far out in left field that it is ridiculous. Such, however, is what a little bad press and panic can do. The NY health committee has planned a meeting in Toronto and it has not been cancelled.

If you want a real reason for staying away from Canada,,,,,it is mosquito season and it is a known that mosquitoes are the means of passing on,,,,,,gasp,,,,,,,yet another potentially fatal disease.....the West Nile Virus.....

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Helen]

Jim, thanks. Do you know HOW it is considered different from influenza? I know that influenza viruses mutate and drift, so what is marking this as something different from a strain of influenza? I really and honestly do want to know!

 

[Gina B]

Thinking things through to their logical conclusion is yet another thing I'm teaching my kids that does NOT seem to be taught in public schools!
Anyhoo, much as I hate to say it, this thread will be closing no sooner than 8:30 EST tonight. If anyone's using conspiracy theory sites for their evidence a pretty decent one is the old Hard Truth/Wake Up America site.

Gina

 

[Peter101]

All flu is not alike. There was a great flu epidemic in 1918 when the fatality rate was about 2 percent. But common flu is not that deadly. Here is how I calculated the 0.1 percent rate for flu at the present time. I found from a reliable medical source on the Internet, that about 10 to 20 percent of the U.S. population get flu each year. That would be from 28 to 56 million people. I also found that the number of deaths is about 36,000 per year. If you divide 36,000 by 28 million, the result is a little more than 0.10 percent, so rounded off it is about 0.10 percent. Naturally that is an approximation because it probably varies from year to year and the death rate will be less if 56 million is used, rather than 28 million. But to a rough approximation, a death rate currently of 0.10 percent is a reasonably good number. Now it is easy enough to get the death rate of SARS from the World Heath Organization web site. I think they are reporting, as of yesterday, a total of 7,000 cases and 500 deaths. So that is a death rate of about 7 percent, or more than 70 times that of the flu death rate. If you disagree with that calculation, show where it is in error. It only involves simple arithmetic, that is not beyond the ability of a secondary school teacher.

 

[Jim1999]

Helen, I honestly can't answer that. I haven't talked with my daughter, who is the pathologist in the family, and the scientists we hear on the telly are not being specific. They just say it is different. They are also saying it will prolly take two years to develop an effective vaccine.

As you may know, in medical corners "flu" is a common term used for all kinds of maladies.....some having nothing to do with influenza. Doctors use the term when they don't know what is causing the person's ailment and they use common treatments....a try and see method. This is more common in medical practice than we care to think about.

I do know that not one new case has broken out in Canada that has not already existed, or been in direct connection with the original cases.

The WHO is not a credible organization. They issued a warning not to visit Canada, but when challenged with facts and data from Canadian doctors, scientists and poiticians, they retracted, then removed the warning. Too late for us, but at least we were vindicated.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Helen]

Peter, credible or not, WHO posted a total of 1665 deaths from influenza in 1999. Where are you getting the much larger figure that you have? Pneumonia, that year, killed about 62,000 people in the USA. Your statistics -- where are you getting them from please. Here is where I got mine:
http://www3.who.int/whosis/mort/table1_process.cfm#

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As it has been noted this thread has gone to a third page (and beyond). (Who says the three page limit is a law of the Medes and Persians.) So, No Earlier Than 1030p Eastern/Board Time one of this forums moderators will close this thread. I would like to thank some of our contributors for wasting space

trying to pin down Helen's qualifications for the questions she asked at the beginning of this thread. So far only Jim came close to a response. What is the matter with a skeptical laymen asking more or less educated questions?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Personally, the concern this epidemic has raised around the world is not based on its actual pathology and mortality rate. The world's seemingly irrational concern is based more on the PRC's secrecy and mishandleing of the initial outbreak of the syndrome. Now that time has elapsed, the medical community is getting a better handle on the matter. It now knows it is not facing another HIV/AIDS crisis. But you would never have known that by the PRC's early actions.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

"Closing Time, M'Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen, Closing Time."