News: U.S. Threatened Sanctions if Israel blocked Roadmap

Good info, Squire. I may be wrong, but I am certain the Balfour Declaration was in 1917 - before the end of WWI. If the Allies were going to partition the Ottaman Empire (and why shouldn't they? Why should the Turks who fought against them be allowed to continue ruling all that Arab land?), why couldn't they give part of it to the Jews? The Arabs were given plenty of land - why not the Jews? Besides, God MADE that land, and why shouldn't he be able to give it to whichever nation he pleases?

Regarding Bush - he has fallen massively in my estimations. If Israel has to "give back" that land that was NEVER a "Palestinan" state, then when is Bush going to "give back" Texas to Mexico??? Or almost all his country to the American Indians??? USA only began as a rebelious British colony on the East coast - what right did it have to "occupy" all the rest? When is Bush going to give it back? Or is that history, and the USA as a nation will carry on with its boarders it has conquered? And BTW - USA had much less legitimate reasons for conquering its territory than did Israel in 1967.

But the answer is simple: If the "Palestinians" really need a home country, then don't chop off half of that tiny slither-of-a-country (Israel) to give it to them. Why, there seems to be plenty more room in Texas.

 

If you're referring to the world tribune, it's a yellow journalism site. Alas, even tabloids are protected by the first amendment.

I for one have never let escatology dictate my global views. History proves that every attempt by powers to do so have proven wrong. Just ask Hal Lindsay about that. But if you put escatology aside, fro a secular global point of view, the so called road map for the middle east is a reasonable solution to the region's problems, especially considering that the folks in the region have been unable and/or unwilling to solve their own problems amicably. But, if you want to throw Christian views into the mix, we as Christians should not be supporting theocratic governments that publicly deny the God of the NT and the Christ of the resurrection, which would mean we should tell Isreal and Palestine to solve their own problems. To support Israel alone for eschatological reasons is an example of Christians picking and choosing their beliefs as the see fit.

 

I know I have said this before, but here it is again:

I don't care what the rest of the world thinks about America.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I pity our nation when our back has turned against Israel, and the Bush administration will be to blame for what happens to us. Our blood will be on his hands. And Israel's blood will be on his hands. Our nation is so wicked now, I truly believe God has spared us because we have befriended Israel. This all sickens me. But God will fight for little Israel, watch & see. He may just wash His hands of America, though.

Is this the Isreal you are speaking of?

[13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[3]
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

 

So what was I saying about people calling anyone who disagrees antisemite??

 

The Jerusalem that now is, as Paul said, is in bondage with her children. The unbelieving Jews are no more the elect of God than the unbelieving Palestinians.

Those currently in charge of the Israeli commonwealth are no more men of God than Ahab or Herod. They are, in the words of Jesus, of their "father the devil."

Since when, I ask, did God ever say that He would honor a Jewish democracy? God ordained a theocracy with Himself as King for Israel. They will not find peace till He reigns over them.

There will be no peace for Israel as long as they reject and despise the Lord. There will be no peace in Jerusalem till the Prince of Peace reigns there.

And I might add the words of Paul, "Whatsoever things the law says it says to them who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world become guilty before God."

Even so come Lord Jesus!

Mark Osgatharp

 

I agree (well, it depends what you mean by "peace"; there can be various degrees of "bad"). But why does this matter? God made the land. God gave it to the Jews. So it's really not hard to work out who should own it.

 

Those same verses are plastered all over nearly every Aryan Nation web site I just googled. Wow, what a coincidence.

Gee, they are also the words of Jesus. Maybe you should spend less time on the Aryan Nation sites and more in the Olivet Discourse.

 

Does your SBC pastor preach the doctrine of Replacement Theology?

No.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul is simply saying that the Jews ARE included in the New Covenant.

"A final thought. It needs to be understood that the church is no afterthought in the mind of God, as suggested by the millennial paradigm. The term Replacement Theology is used by millennialists to suggest that God arbitrarily and capriciously set Israel and her kingdom agenda aside, due to her rejection of Jesus. However, for Paul, the church was and is the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel (Romans 15:8f), not the suspension of those promises. Thus, I would agree that the suggestion of a Replacement Theology in the vein suggesting a setting aside of Israel's promises to establish something contrary and unrelated to those promises, is false. However, to affirm that the church is the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel is the Gospel, and herein lies the tragic failure of the millennialists, and the Jews, to see the glory of Christ and the church. It was God's eternal purpose to replace the shadow world of Israel with the body of Christ (Galatians 3:23f). To affirm the fulfillment of those promises is the Gospel.
The fact is, the kingdom of Christ, the church, cannot be replaced! The millennialists is correct on one point, Replacement Theology is wrong. However, it is their doctrine of Replacement Theology, i.e. that the church will one day be replaced by Israel, that is at odds with scripture."

http://www.eschatology.org/articles/israelofgod/replacement.htm

 

http://www.sovereigngracebible.org/

"For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And to those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal 6: 15-16).
To the apostle, the Israel of God is synonymous with the new creation. Unlike the "old" Israel under the Old Covenant which had an old and vanishing way of approaching God, the "new" Israel is under the New Covenant and has access to God through a new and living way (Heb 10:20). It is comprised of both Jew and Gentile who have been made into one "new" man in Christ (Eph 2: 15) with a "new" commandment to love one another (John 13:34). Entrance into this "new" creation comes through the "new" birth which is brought about by grace, through faith in Christ and is not based on fleshly descent, social standing, or gender (Gal 3:28).
Thus in Paul’s mind there are two Israel’s that exist simultaneously in time and have always existed in this manner. That is why he can state categorically that
"For they are not all Israel who are who are of Israel" (Romans 9: 6 NKJV).
Try using this type of phraseology with any other nation or nationality and see how foolish it would be. Imagine saying that, "they are not all Arabs who are Arabs"! Or how about, "They are not all Eskimos who are Eskimos". It would make absolutely no sense whatsoever. But it makes perfect sense to use Paul’s language because there are two different Israel’s – one "after the flesh", the other "after the spirit". Look again at how Paul further differentiates between the two in that same letter to the Romans:
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." (Romans 2: 28-29).
We see the exact same truth referred to by none less than our Lord Jesus who in His revelation to the churches of Asia Minor addresses the churches at both Smyrna and Philadelphia in the following manner:
"I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." (Rev 2: 9).
"Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews, and are not, but lie – behold, I will make them to come and bow down at your feet, and to know that I have loved you". (Rev 3: 9).
There simply is no other way to explain this than to realize that not everyone who can trace his or her fleshly descent back to Abraham can be considered to be a Jew and thus a part of Israel. Otherwise we are left with the insane possibility of someone claiming to be of one race or nationality all the while belonging to another! Further proof of this truth is attested by our Lord’s remarks concerning Nathaniel in the gospel of John.
"And Nathaniel said to him, ‘Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?’ Philip said to him, "Come and see.’ Jesus saw Nathaniel coming to Him, and said of him, ‘Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!’ Nathaniel said to Him, ‘How do You know me?’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.’ Nathaniel answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these.’ And He said to him, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, you shall see the heavens opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.’" (John 1: 46-51).
The Lord Jesus calls Nathaniel an Israelite indeed or in truth. In contrast to the vast majority of the nation, Nathaniel was a true son of Jacob whom had seen the heavens opened centuries before with the angels of God ascending and descending upon a ladder. In the same manner in which God had changed this man of guile and duplicity into a true child of God and renamed him Israel, so too would Nathaniel be counted among those who had been recipients of the same work of divine grace in their heart? Clearly then it is no stretching of the Scriptures to categorically state that among the vast numbers of those who make up national Israel and call themselves Jews, there are those who belong to God and those who do not but are rather children of the devil. What else does the term, "synagogue" of Satan refer to?
This is precisely what Jesus told the Jews in the eighth chapter of John’s gospel.
"I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.’ They answered Him and said, ‘Abraham is our father.’ Jesus said to them, ‘If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father.’ They said to Him, ‘ We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.’ Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He send Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.’" (John 8: 38-44).

There! That should keep you busy.

 

I think I heard Tom Metzger say those same things once.

 

Some baby steps have been made toward peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians this week. May God grant all parties the wisdom and courage to bring this Road Map for Peace to full fruition. May God especially bless the Israeli and Palestinian children that they may grow up in peace and security and not in fear.