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NFL... The Calvinist View
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
"Adam fell, therefore Christ must die."
That is if Adam's fallen race is to be redeemed.
Pastor Price is very weak in Scripture.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
No.
I disagree, Charlie.
Notice to whom it is written, Charlie...
Israel, under the covenant of Law through Moses.
Therein, my friend, is the lesson.
Look what a nation of people whom the Lord manifested Himself to, did...
Constantly going astray, constantly turning their backs on God and constantly erecting idols both in their hearts and upon the landscape, practicing the same unholiness and irreverence towards the Lord that the nations around them were doing.
The Lord here is pleading with rebellious Israel under the covenant of Law that they agreed to after Moses led them out of Egypt;
But He already predicted what they would do, even after all was said and done
It's a case study to God's elect for why a people that come to Him and that will spend eternity with Him, need the new birth... and God does indeed do such for His people.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Sure he did, Ken.
But look what happened after he exercised it.
The deceitfulness of sin crept in, and Adam blamed his wife...
When he should have immediately humbled himself and sought the Lord's forgiveness.
KenH
Well-Known Member
No mere human has ever or will ever have libertarian free will. I know that cuts against the grain of the thinking of fallen man, but it is just the way it has been, is, and always will be - God is absolutely totally 100% sovereign and His creation is absolutely totally 0% sovereign.
Isaiah 29:16 Shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Isaiah 64:8 We are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Romans 9:19-21 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Your not reading the context of what these verses are saying, you pick a verse and use it for your purpose without understanding what it's saying.
You have the characteristics of the UR, the context doesn't matter.
KenH
Well-Known Member
What is a "UR"?
Universal Restoration, those cultists that believe Hell is temporary and all eventually are accepted by God.
KenH
Well-Known Member
It is you who sounds like a "UR", since you think that God wants to save everybody(which is false) and that God never fails(which is true); therefore, unless you now admit that your thinking is inconsistent and illogical, you evidently believe that everybody will be saved.
Yes, I can see how you could believe that.
God is merciful and gracious to all of mankind, He strives with man knowing all will not accept Him.
He pleaded with His Chosen, Israel for centuries, until they crucified their Christ.
And still He is pleading with Israel to come to Him, but they will not.
But guess what, Ken,
Rom. 11:26-27
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
He is still going to save all of Israel, He has determined it and nothing can stop it!
KenH
Well-Known Member
All of Israel to saved means all of God's elect - Jews and Gentiles - whom God chose before the world began and gave to His Son to be their Surety and to pay all of their sin debt and whom, under the preaching of the gospel of the finished work of Christ, the Holy Spirit regenerates and grants them the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ and the gift of repentance of the dead works they had been trusting in.
How many of God's elect are Jews and how many are Gentiles, or how many are bond or free, or how many are male or female, the Bible does not say.
The Bible does say:
Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Let's read the next verse Rom. 11:28
"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes."
The nation of Israel is God's chosen people and they are our enemies concernig the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as a nation they do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.
So no, Ken, the Israel Paul is speaking of here is the national state of Israel we know today.
Why do you think the miracle of Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 took place, after almost 2000 years of being scattered all over the world?
God has promised to save them, all of them!
KenH
Well-Known Member
As I wrote, how many of God's elect are Jews and how many are Gentiles, or how many are bond or free, or how many are male or female, the Bible does not say.
The Bible does not reveal to God's creation the exact number that God chose before the foundation of the world; thus, it would be foolish to attempt to come up with an exact number of any category of people.
The Bible does reveal:
Revelation 5:9 Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.
If you want to get into a debate on eschatology, I am not interested. For the record, the best commentary on the book of Revelation I have read is entitled, More Than Conquerors, by William Hendriksen. It is free to read in pdf form here: https://tbc.tn-biblecollege.edu/files/tbc/resthistlib/Hendricksen-W-More_Than_Conquerors_-1940.pdf.
Jer. 30:32
The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
"Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it."
@KenH
It is only by the power of the USA that Israel is possessing the land God gave them.
Do you think it by chance or by the decree of the Almighty God that the 3 middle letters of Jerusalem are USA.
Jer usa lem.
Do you think it possible that the USA is the most powerful nation on earth, only by God's decree to protect Israel?
FYI. EVERYONE! THIS IS NOT SCRIPTURE!
This is 'Reformed Theology', going too far, beyond what is written, as is 'Reformed Theology' is wont to do.
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KenH
Well-Known Member
As I wrote earlier, I am not interested in debating eschatology. If you are interested in my general ideas on the subject, then please go to William Hendriksen's More Than Conquerors that I provided a link to earlier.
There seems to be a gazillion ideas about eschatology, which pretty much makes a discussion on the subject a cacophony of noise.
I am quite content with knowing that, according to 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Christ Jesus returns, that this present heavens and earth will be burned up and replaced with the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness. I see no reason to argue over the details of it, as all will take place as God has ordained it will take place.
2 Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.