skanwmatos
New Member
Better get used to it. We seem to have a new moderator who can't control the urge toward stentorian censorship. Even when there is no need for it.
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NIV & New Age Movement by Al Lacey
- Thread starter DeclareHim
- Start date
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Posting Rules:Originally posted by skanwmatos:
Better get used to it. We seem to have a new moderator who can't control the urge toward stentorian censorship. Even when there is no need for it.
3. Show grace to the other posters. When someone disagrees with you, discuss it; but be slow to offend, and eager to get into the Word and find the answers. Remember, when discussing passionate issues, it is easy to go too far and offend. Further, if we are "earnestly contending for the faith" it would be unrealistic not to expect at times to be misunderstood or even ridiculed. But please note that your words can sometimes be harsh if used in the wrong way. The anger of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
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Diane
Administrator
DeclareHim
New Member
It's interesting, don't you think, that Baptist City claims to be fundamental, yet holds to the added doctrine of KJVOnlyism, thus disqualifying them from being fundamental. Seeing as how the quote from them in the OP is a lie, this does not surprise me. </font>[/QUOTE]Not a very good website. Mostly a propaganda organization for the KJVO movement. Jack Hyles indoctrinated many many people in his false ways and his false legacy will live on for many years.
RTG asked:
Has anyone heard of Harper collins,or Rupert Murdoch.I have read they own the printing rights to the NIV.
The copyright to the NIV is owned by the International Bible Societies, which underwrote the translation. Printing rights in North America belong to Zondervan, one of the major Christian publishing houses in Grand Rapids. (Outside of North America the NIV is printed by Hodder & Stoughton.)
Zondervan was acquired a few years ago by HarperCollins, which itself was later acquired by the News Corporation, a media conglomerate which also comprises FOX and numerous British tabloid newspapers. Rupert Murdoch is the CEO.
However, the current ownership of Zondervan has no significance to the text of the Bible.
Has anyone heard of Harper collins,or Rupert Murdoch.I have read they own the printing rights to the NIV.
The copyright to the NIV is owned by the International Bible Societies, which underwrote the translation. Printing rights in North America belong to Zondervan, one of the major Christian publishing houses in Grand Rapids. (Outside of North America the NIV is printed by Hodder & Stoughton.)
Zondervan was acquired a few years ago by HarperCollins, which itself was later acquired by the News Corporation, a media conglomerate which also comprises FOX and numerous British tabloid newspapers. Rupert Murdoch is the CEO.
However, the current ownership of Zondervan has no significance to the text of the Bible.
Lacy Evans
New Member
Any KJVOer worth his salt ought to run-not-walk away from Hyles and his "legacy".
Running, Lacy
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Al Lacey as summarized: " ... the NIV is packed lock stock
and barrel with na terms and words ... "
That is a deceptivie statement.
The flea: the NIV uses New AGe terms & words
The elephant in the living room:
the New Age (na) uses terms and words to
trick Christians, these words are in fact used in
all Christian Bible versions (not just the NIV)
The New Age movement takes the words
of other religions and gives them strictly New
Age meaning. So words from Christianity, from the
Bible, are adopted with new meaning into the New AGe.
So terms and words are used from ALL Christian
Bibles and NOT just the NIV.
and barrel with na terms and words ... "
That is a deceptivie statement.
The flea: the NIV uses New AGe terms & words
The elephant in the living room:
the New Age (na) uses terms and words to
trick Christians, these words are in fact used in
all Christian Bible versions (not just the NIV)
The New Age movement takes the words
of other religions and gives them strictly New
Age meaning. So words from Christianity, from the
Bible, are adopted with new meaning into the New AGe.
So terms and words are used from ALL Christian
Bibles and NOT just the NIV.
Lacy Evans
New Member
I can't wait for the real "New Age" to come with the Lord sitting on the throne and ruling for 1000 years!!!!!
Lacy
Lacy
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Amen, Brother Pastor Lacy
Evans -- Preach it!
Marcia
Active Member
Hi, Ed! Just a clarification here. You're right that New Age, Satanism, and Paganism are distinct from each other (though there are some overlaps). The word "warlock," however is not generally used for 'male witch' in contemporary Paganism. It has a derogatory meaning - some believe it signifies someone who uses magick for evil. Male witches are simply called witches (or Wiccans). The term 'warlock' seems to be used primarily (and wrongly) in TV and in movies, which has become a source of misinformation.
Just another point of interest (can't help myself - it's my ministry and I lecture on this across the country, including at the NAMB in Atlanta and on an NAMB video), contemporary Satanism, mostly modeled on Anton La Vey, is atheistic. That is, they do not believe in God or Satan; rather, Satan is a symbol for being your own god. There are Satanists who do worship Satan, but this atheistic form is what one finds the most of on the 'Net and among younger people.
The New Age, Paganism, and Satanism are actually complex belief systems with many branches and diverse beliefs and practices. People often only have simplified or caricatured views of them. Paganism itself includes Wicca, Druidry, Asatru, Odinism (found among White Supremacists in prison but not all Odinists are White Supremacists), just to name a few, and these groups have different branches. Well, I better quit!
DeclareHim
New Member
Lacey I was mistaken earlier.I believe God has inspired His Word in the mss. We in my opinion have no Inspired Perfect English translation of the Bible I should say I believe many versions are at the same level in that they have closely and accurately translated from the original languages. The same list I mentioned earlier fits into this category. Sorry for the mistake.
I've recounted this story before on the BB, but RTG's question reminds me of it again:
A few years ago I was talking to a hardcore KJVO who (among other points) proceded to tell me that "One of the reasons the NIV is evil is because it's printed by Zondervan."
Being aware of his "reasons" for saying so, I asked him to open his KJV and see whom it was printed by. As it turned out (drum roll): ZONDERVAN.
Zondervan has published A LOT of King James Bibles over the years. If (in the minds of some KJVO's) the NIV is someone tainted by its association with Zondervan, wouldn't these KJV's also be?
Here are currently published KJV editions from Zondervan:
http://www.zondervanbibles.com/kjv.htm
--------------------------------------------------
This is all laughable but I want to point out a few things anyway in case you meet someone who believes this stuff. New Agers don't have leaders. That is one of the characteristics of the NAM -- it's leaderless. There are writers and people who influence others, but not leaders. I am a former New Ager and my ministry deals with this, and I can guarantee you -- 100% -- that no New Ager has the faintest idea who Westcott and Hort are, nor would they care. They probably would not know an NIV if it bit them.
Also, witches do not believe in Satan and do not worship him (another area of my ministry is the occult).
The sad irony of all this is that these people are afraid the New Age is a danger because of the NIV or NASB when actually some very conservative believers are getting into New Age (and occult) practices and beliefs through yoga, energy healing, and other stuff that is mainstreaming in the culture. I have heard from believers who are accepting chakras (from Hinduism) and auras.
Satan can get us to look at the wrong thing so that we ignore the real dangers, and this is what is happening here with this NIV New Age myth.
--------------------------------------------------
This may be "lauphable" to you, but I have to say that there is NOTHING lauphable about this. Many posting on these threads have absolutely no idea how dangerous these things are, and are happening (that is implied can't or doesn't happen) right before our very eyes, and have been for quite some time. If you actually did any research on this, as I would guess since you mention you were once involved, and now have a ministry regarding these things, you most assuredly would know this.
Even though DeclareHim apparrently was posting sarcasim, his posts rings with the truth. What many do not realize, is that many people use words and change their meaning. This is what the New Agers do, and it has terrible consequences for those who do not know any better. The lie then, can be seen, or perceived as the truth. The words are the same, but the meanings of these words have changed subtily. Take for instance, the Roman Catholic. If you asked if they were born again, most wouldn't know what you are talking about. But the charismatic catholics would, but would give you a totally different explanation (the New Age explanation) of what they mean than what is the truth (and unfortunately even amongst those who consider themselves of Jesus Christ).
You claim that New Agers do not have leaders. Well, technically this would be true. However, if you understand most people, and human nature, it is always to follow someone, to be led, or influenced (whether aware of it or not)or in some cases to lead. There have ALWAYS been those few people that LEAD others without the person even realizing it. It is called brainwashing, and the power of persuassion using WORDS. How many people living in Germany prior to WWII would have EVER agreed or admitted to the fact that they were being brainwashed? And how in affect were these people brainwashed, even in the face of that fact that they should have known better? Yet, they most assuredly were. We are all being led by someone, and there are always those who are doing the leading, since the very beginning of time. Let us hope and pray earnestly that we are being led by the right person, who is Jesus Christ our Lord. Most today are not - including those calling themselves christians.
You made another point that is true on the surface, that witches do not, nor ever have worshipped satan. This is true technically, but literally they DO worship satan, whether they realize this or not. They worship the creature, more than the creator. This is satan worship. They are believing what satan has tempted in the garden, and recieve power from him as they ask. Who do you think witches make their requests to? Who do they think they recieve these powers from? Ultimately, we all know who allows this to be done, but THEY worship something, or someone, who by their terminology and misunderstanding is nature, but nature has no power to give to them. They worship someone, or something that gives them power. This is satan. The dragon. That old serpent called the devil. Do they believe this? NO. But they DO worship and follow him and his lies, and he decieves them into worshipping him, and themselves. I was once in the New Age ideology myself (and all along I thought I was christian), although I didn't even realize it then. My understanding of things and my outlook on life were just as those who claim to be New Agers, yet I didn't even know I was, until the Lord showered upon me his abundant mercy, love and grace and opened my eyes and heart up to his truth. Those who are not yet saved and some that are saved, do not understand, nor can understand, until the Lord shows them. Do you know that the term used in many of the modern versions for God is "the One"? This is very New Age and very satanic. Our Lord is a personal God, and he has a name. He is never refered to, nor does he EVER REFER to HIMSELF as "the One". This is a gnostic term for their god, who is Satan. WE see this term or title in the modern versions, that call themselves a Holy Bible, the very words of God Almighty, who is a very personal God, and a trinity? I do not even have to read Gail Riplingers book to know that this is not right, and very misleading to which can lead to deception.
Many of you can deny up to your ears, that Westcott and Hort were upstanding Godly christian men, but it might do you well to know that just because someone claims or seems christian, doesn't make it so. I have read the quotations of these men, and if that were not enouph, there involvement in those societies is enouph for me to know them by their fruits. During the time that these two men lived, there were more Godly christian people, and morals and values of God that ruled the society, which is opposite of what we see today. These two men, and others like them, had to be very careful in what they said, and how they said what they believed, otherwise they would have been branded as heretics. These two men, were wolves in sheeps clothing that our precious Lord warned us of. Just remember our Lord's words: If the blind follow the blind, they both fall in the ditch. Do not let ANY man decieve you, for many shall come in MY name. These days, are not the days to be tiptoeing arouond these most important issues, and it is sickening to me, to hear and see so many claiming to love the Lord, make continual excuses for those things that would lead many astray that our precious Lord Jesus also shed his blood for, and not call out a warning. Is it trust first, question later? WE are to continually test things, to see if they are true. All I see is continual excuses in order to be accepted and politcally and socially correct. Let's not make any waves - my sarcasm. Each and every one of us will give an account to our Lord Jesus Christ for what he has given us. Are we going to hear those wonderful words from our Saviour: " Well done, thou good and faithful servant"? or the opposite? Do we care enouph about others that we would send out the warning? OR are we more apt to appease others and make excuses, as if none of it matters, and is lauphable? Is it lauphable that many are being decieved? Is it?
The NIV is very dangerous to those who are not saved. Satan has done a good job convincing many of you that it doesn't matter. I wonder how many of those charismatic christians that are involved in the Chakra (Hinduism, etc.) use the NIV or some modern version. Using these versions will not warn them of the dangers of what they are involved in, because the same terminologies are used in their very Bibles, that they believe is God's pure word. This is deceptive and will lead many astray, and already have.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
This is all laughable but I want to point out a few things anyway in case you meet someone who believes this stuff. New Agers don't have leaders. That is one of the characteristics of the NAM -- it's leaderless. There are writers and people who influence others, but not leaders. I am a former New Ager and my ministry deals with this, and I can guarantee you -- 100% -- that no New Ager has the faintest idea who Westcott and Hort are, nor would they care. They probably would not know an NIV if it bit them.
Also, witches do not believe in Satan and do not worship him (another area of my ministry is the occult).
The sad irony of all this is that these people are afraid the New Age is a danger because of the NIV or NASB when actually some very conservative believers are getting into New Age (and occult) practices and beliefs through yoga, energy healing, and other stuff that is mainstreaming in the culture. I have heard from believers who are accepting chakras (from Hinduism) and auras.
Satan can get us to look at the wrong thing so that we ignore the real dangers, and this is what is happening here with this NIV New Age myth.
--------------------------------------------------
This may be "lauphable" to you, but I have to say that there is NOTHING lauphable about this. Many posting on these threads have absolutely no idea how dangerous these things are, and are happening (that is implied can't or doesn't happen) right before our very eyes, and have been for quite some time. If you actually did any research on this, as I would guess since you mention you were once involved, and now have a ministry regarding these things, you most assuredly would know this.
Even though DeclareHim apparrently was posting sarcasim, his posts rings with the truth. What many do not realize, is that many people use words and change their meaning. This is what the New Agers do, and it has terrible consequences for those who do not know any better. The lie then, can be seen, or perceived as the truth. The words are the same, but the meanings of these words have changed subtily. Take for instance, the Roman Catholic. If you asked if they were born again, most wouldn't know what you are talking about. But the charismatic catholics would, but would give you a totally different explanation (the New Age explanation) of what they mean than what is the truth (and unfortunately even amongst those who consider themselves of Jesus Christ).
You claim that New Agers do not have leaders. Well, technically this would be true. However, if you understand most people, and human nature, it is always to follow someone, to be led, or influenced (whether aware of it or not)or in some cases to lead. There have ALWAYS been those few people that LEAD others without the person even realizing it. It is called brainwashing, and the power of persuassion using WORDS. How many people living in Germany prior to WWII would have EVER agreed or admitted to the fact that they were being brainwashed? And how in affect were these people brainwashed, even in the face of that fact that they should have known better? Yet, they most assuredly were. We are all being led by someone, and there are always those who are doing the leading, since the very beginning of time. Let us hope and pray earnestly that we are being led by the right person, who is Jesus Christ our Lord. Most today are not - including those calling themselves christians.
You made another point that is true on the surface, that witches do not, nor ever have worshipped satan. This is true technically, but literally they DO worship satan, whether they realize this or not. They worship the creature, more than the creator. This is satan worship. They are believing what satan has tempted in the garden, and recieve power from him as they ask. Who do you think witches make their requests to? Who do they think they recieve these powers from? Ultimately, we all know who allows this to be done, but THEY worship something, or someone, who by their terminology and misunderstanding is nature, but nature has no power to give to them. They worship someone, or something that gives them power. This is satan. The dragon. That old serpent called the devil. Do they believe this? NO. But they DO worship and follow him and his lies, and he decieves them into worshipping him, and themselves. I was once in the New Age ideology myself (and all along I thought I was christian), although I didn't even realize it then. My understanding of things and my outlook on life were just as those who claim to be New Agers, yet I didn't even know I was, until the Lord showered upon me his abundant mercy, love and grace and opened my eyes and heart up to his truth. Those who are not yet saved and some that are saved, do not understand, nor can understand, until the Lord shows them. Do you know that the term used in many of the modern versions for God is "the One"? This is very New Age and very satanic. Our Lord is a personal God, and he has a name. He is never refered to, nor does he EVER REFER to HIMSELF as "the One". This is a gnostic term for their god, who is Satan. WE see this term or title in the modern versions, that call themselves a Holy Bible, the very words of God Almighty, who is a very personal God, and a trinity? I do not even have to read Gail Riplingers book to know that this is not right, and very misleading to which can lead to deception.
Many of you can deny up to your ears, that Westcott and Hort were upstanding Godly christian men, but it might do you well to know that just because someone claims or seems christian, doesn't make it so. I have read the quotations of these men, and if that were not enouph, there involvement in those societies is enouph for me to know them by their fruits. During the time that these two men lived, there were more Godly christian people, and morals and values of God that ruled the society, which is opposite of what we see today. These two men, and others like them, had to be very careful in what they said, and how they said what they believed, otherwise they would have been branded as heretics. These two men, were wolves in sheeps clothing that our precious Lord warned us of. Just remember our Lord's words: If the blind follow the blind, they both fall in the ditch. Do not let ANY man decieve you, for many shall come in MY name. These days, are not the days to be tiptoeing arouond these most important issues, and it is sickening to me, to hear and see so many claiming to love the Lord, make continual excuses for those things that would lead many astray that our precious Lord Jesus also shed his blood for, and not call out a warning. Is it trust first, question later? WE are to continually test things, to see if they are true. All I see is continual excuses in order to be accepted and politcally and socially correct. Let's not make any waves - my sarcasm. Each and every one of us will give an account to our Lord Jesus Christ for what he has given us. Are we going to hear those wonderful words from our Saviour: " Well done, thou good and faithful servant"? or the opposite? Do we care enouph about others that we would send out the warning? OR are we more apt to appease others and make excuses, as if none of it matters, and is lauphable? Is it lauphable that many are being decieved? Is it?
The NIV is very dangerous to those who are not saved. Satan has done a good job convincing many of you that it doesn't matter. I wonder how many of those charismatic christians that are involved in the Chakra (Hinduism, etc.) use the NIV or some modern version. Using these versions will not warn them of the dangers of what they are involved in, because the same terminologies are used in their very Bibles, that they believe is God's pure word. This is deceptive and will lead many astray, and already have.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, you're seeing boogermen in the shadows where none exist, again. The KJV is as much misused as is the NIV or any other BV. Just because a NA person uses a certain word or phrase doesn't make that word or phrase evil or corrupt, any more than Koresh's use of the KJV, and his quoting aloud from it made it corrupt.
The NIV is just one of the many bridges or tools that are being used to usher in a one world religion, and henceforth government. Beware! There are many wolves in sheeps clothing, and they indeed have done their job, even subtily as their master Satan. Whether they are aware of it or not, this is indeed the truth, and our Lord Jesus warns us of these things. How insulting and despicable that our Lord's precious words have been subtily altered and/or omitted to lead many astray! Yet, this one thing started the whole process that led to sin in the first place to which was ultimately our separation from God Almighty. It was the tool Satan used to take us away from God, and now he does it to keep us away from God. Do not be decieved that satan can't or doesn't use God's word to decieve, for indeed he does, and did from the very beginning.
Does God want us to worship him as we think we ought to worship? Or does God desire us to worship him as he desires and wills for us to worship him? Are we to worship our own self made image of God, or rather does God desire us to worship him as he reveals to us in his word of truth? And if his words have been altered (by meanings, omittions, additions, etc.) then how can we truly know God and how He desires us to worship him, and ultimately truly worship Him for who He really is? If God's words are altered, so is the revelation of Himself altered, and is no longer the true revelation of Himself. You all might want to ponder this in light of this topic.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Does God want us to worship him as we think we ought to worship? Or does God desire us to worship him as he desires and wills for us to worship him? Are we to worship our own self made image of God, or rather does God desire us to worship him as he reveals to us in his word of truth? And if his words have been altered (by meanings, omittions, additions, etc.) then how can we truly know God and how He desires us to worship him, and ultimately truly worship Him for who He really is? If God's words are altered, so is the revelation of Himself altered, and is no longer the true revelation of Himself. You all might want to ponder this in light of this topic.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
--------------------------------------------------
Michelle, you're seeing boogermen in the shadows where none exist, again. The KJV is as much misused as is the NIV or any other BV. Just because a NA person uses a certain word or phrase doesn't make that word or phrase evil or corrupt, any more than Koresh's use of the KJV, and his quoting aloud from it made it corrupt
--------------------------------------------------
My post was not talking about being misused. My post was concerning deception caused by word changes and alterations that are New Age in terminologies and meanings, such as the phrase "the One" or "His Name". This is being done purposely. And yes, there is a boogeyman in the shadows, who does exist, and his name is Satan, or the dragon, or the serpent, or the Devil, or Lucifer. It would do many good, to keep on the look out, and keep thier lights so shining to keep this boogeyman in the shadows away from them and others.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, you're seeing boogermen in the shadows where none exist, again. The KJV is as much misused as is the NIV or any other BV. Just because a NA person uses a certain word or phrase doesn't make that word or phrase evil or corrupt, any more than Koresh's use of the KJV, and his quoting aloud from it made it corrupt
--------------------------------------------------
My post was not talking about being misused. My post was concerning deception caused by word changes and alterations that are New Age in terminologies and meanings, such as the phrase "the One" or "His Name". This is being done purposely. And yes, there is a boogeyman in the shadows, who does exist, and his name is Satan, or the dragon, or the serpent, or the Devil, or Lucifer. It would do many good, to keep on the look out, and keep thier lights so shining to keep this boogeyman in the shadows away from them and others.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle:The NIV is just one of the many bridges or tools that are being used to usher in a one world religion, and henceforth government.
What an imagination! You oughtta write for Disney!
Beware! There are many wolves in sheeps clothing, and they indeed have done their job, even subtily as their master Satan. Whether they are aware of it or not, this is indeed the truth, and our Lord Jesus warns us of these things.
Yerp! One of those devices is called "KJVOism".
How insulting and despicable that our Lord's precious words have been subtily altered and/or omitted to lead many astray! Yet, this one thing started the whole process that led to sin in the first place to which was ultimately our separation from God Almighty. It was the tool Satan used to take us away from God, and now he does it to keep us away from God. Do not be decieved that satan can't or doesn't use God's word to decieve, for indeed he does, and did from the very beginning.
Yerp! Long as satan can make one believe that a valid Bible is corrupt, he wins!
Does God want us to worship him as we think we ought to worship? Or does God desire us to worship him as he desires and wills for us to worship him? Are we to worship our own self made image of God, or rather does God desire us to worship him as he reveals to us in his word of truth? And if his words have been altered (by meanings, omittions, additions, etc.) then how can we truly know God and how He desires us to worship him, and ultimately truly worship Him for who He really is? If God's words are altered, so is the revelation of Himself altered, and is no longer the true revelation of Himself. You all might want to ponder this in light of this topic.
We've asked you many times to*PROVE* to us that God wants us to use the KJV only, and you simply cannot do it. Your only "proof" that the NIV is corrupt is that "it aint the KJV" or that some words & phrases in it are also used by New-Agers. You're fishing again.
What an imagination! You oughtta write for Disney!
Beware! There are many wolves in sheeps clothing, and they indeed have done their job, even subtily as their master Satan. Whether they are aware of it or not, this is indeed the truth, and our Lord Jesus warns us of these things.
Yerp! One of those devices is called "KJVOism".
How insulting and despicable that our Lord's precious words have been subtily altered and/or omitted to lead many astray! Yet, this one thing started the whole process that led to sin in the first place to which was ultimately our separation from God Almighty. It was the tool Satan used to take us away from God, and now he does it to keep us away from God. Do not be decieved that satan can't or doesn't use God's word to decieve, for indeed he does, and did from the very beginning.
Yerp! Long as satan can make one believe that a valid Bible is corrupt, he wins!
Does God want us to worship him as we think we ought to worship? Or does God desire us to worship him as he desires and wills for us to worship him? Are we to worship our own self made image of God, or rather does God desire us to worship him as he reveals to us in his word of truth? And if his words have been altered (by meanings, omittions, additions, etc.) then how can we truly know God and how He desires us to worship him, and ultimately truly worship Him for who He really is? If God's words are altered, so is the revelation of Himself altered, and is no longer the true revelation of Himself. You all might want to ponder this in light of this topic.
We've asked you many times to*PROVE* to us that God wants us to use the KJV only, and you simply cannot do it. Your only "proof" that the NIV is corrupt is that "it aint the KJV" or that some words & phrases in it are also used by New-Agers. You're fishing again.