Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Superdave -- I like it.Originally posted by superdave:
Ed, You are terrible
I love it!
How you like "Ed the Terrible"?
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NIV & New Age Movement by Al Lacey
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How you like "Ed the Terrible"?
GrannyGumbo said ""When I was given access to the world via of this 'puter, I discovered the most marvelous dictionary...the Webster's 1828. It's amazing how 'modernization' has changed so many meanings over the years. I prefer to think the definitions in the 1828 are what it's s'pose to REALLY be."
Why does Webster's 1828 say the definition of Lucifer is Venus, the morning star?
michele said "Lucifer was used in the Geneva Bible also. This was the word for Satan in the history of the churches even up until this day."
But the marginal note in the Geneva Bible says the meaning of Lucifer in that verse is the planet Venus when it appears like a star in the morning. Lucifer wasn't the name for Satan in the history of the church - one of the early church fathers was named Lucifer (Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari in the fourth century), and although he was quite radical, nobody bothered him about his name.
Nat
Why does Webster's 1828 say the definition of Lucifer is Venus, the morning star?
michele said "Lucifer was used in the Geneva Bible also. This was the word for Satan in the history of the churches even up until this day."
But the marginal note in the Geneva Bible says the meaning of Lucifer in that verse is the planet Venus when it appears like a star in the morning. Lucifer wasn't the name for Satan in the history of the church - one of the early church fathers was named Lucifer (Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari in the fourth century), and although he was quite radical, nobody bothered him about his name.
Nat
Trotter
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Natters,
Exactly. I was kicking around earlier, thumbing (indexing, scrolling, whatever) through several of my commentaries, and decided to look up Isaiah 14:12.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
You know, the only one that had anything to say about "Lucifer" as Satan was Adan Clarke:
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
In Christ,
Trotter
Exactly. I was kicking around earlier, thumbing (indexing, scrolling, whatever) through several of my commentaries, and decided to look up Isaiah 14:12.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
You know, the only one that had anything to say about "Lucifer" as Satan was Adan Clarke:
Strange, is it not, that we accept "Lucifer" as a name of Satan, but only through the inferrence that some people have atttached to this passage. And the passage says absolutely nothing about Satan, but is explicitly about the king of Babylon.
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
In Christ,
Trotter
Lucifer is Satan.
Here is the entire passage of Isaiah. Then comparisons of scipture references following:
Isaiah 14
1. For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2. And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3. And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5. The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11. Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17. That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18. All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21. Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22. For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
23. I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the Besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
Please tell me when vs. 1-11, 23 have happened?
Now compare:
Isaiah 14
1. For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2. And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
Revelation 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Revelation 13
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 20
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Isaiah 14
3. And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
Ezekiel 36
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God.
29. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
Ezekiel 37
10. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14. And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
Hebrews 4
1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5. And in this place again, if they shall enter into my rest.
6. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7. Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Isaiah 14
4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Revelation 14
8. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Revelation 17
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5. And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Revelation 18
1. And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
9. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10. Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12. The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13. And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16. And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17. For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18. And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19. And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23. And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Isaiah 14
6. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Revelation 19
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
.....
7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Isaiah 14
7. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
Ezekiel 36
6. Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:
7. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.
8. But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.
9. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10. And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11. And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
12. Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
13. Thus saith the Lord God; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:
14. Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord God.
15. Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord God.
Revelation 19
1. And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2. For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Isaiah 14
9. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Revelation 20
. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Isaiah 14
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Isaiah 14
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Ezekiel 28
Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12. Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the Beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
2 Thess. 2
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Revelation 13
1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
When were all these things fulfilled?
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Here is the entire passage of Isaiah. Then comparisons of scipture references following:
Isaiah 14
1. For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2. And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3. And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5. The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11. Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17. That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18. All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21. Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22. For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
23. I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the Besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
Please tell me when vs. 1-11, 23 have happened?
Now compare:
Isaiah 14
1. For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2. And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
Revelation 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Revelation 13
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 20
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Isaiah 14
3. And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
Ezekiel 36
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God.
29. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
Ezekiel 37
10. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14. And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
Hebrews 4
1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5. And in this place again, if they shall enter into my rest.
6. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7. Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Isaiah 14
4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Revelation 14
8. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Revelation 17
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5. And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Revelation 18
1. And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
9. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10. Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12. The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13. And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16. And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17. For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18. And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19. And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23. And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Isaiah 14
6. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Revelation 19
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
.....
7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Isaiah 14
7. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
Ezekiel 36
6. Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:
7. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.
8. But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.
9. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10. And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11. And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
12. Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
13. Thus saith the Lord God; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:
14. Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord God.
15. Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord God.
Revelation 19
1. And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2. For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Isaiah 14
9. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Revelation 20
. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Isaiah 14
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Isaiah 14
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Ezekiel 28
Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12. Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the Beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
2 Thess. 2
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Revelation 13
1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
When were all these things fulfilled?
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
Thank you!
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Sorry Sister, your
whole exercise is futile.
IMHO Lucifer is a metaphor for Satan.
All these verses are in the NIV.
So you proved nothing, demonstrated nothing, and
wasted the Webmaster's bandwidth.
By contrast, we have shown that
"Lucifer" is by the KJV1611 Edition
and the King James Version translator's
sacred sidenotes the "day starre".
Sorry, sister, but we can point in the
heavens to the planet Venus and show
when it is the day star, when it is the
morning star, when it is the evening star.
By contrast, the lead devil, the head
demon, Satan (the accuser) is mentioned
multiple times in each version of the
Bible. You have shown nothing but the
futility of building your doctrine (teaching)
on ONE VERSE while virtually TAKING AWAY
the other verses on the matter.
There is one faith, one hope, one baptism,
One Lord and Master: Iesus, the Christ.
There are multiple versions in English
each the Bible and all together the Bible.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
GrannyGumbo: "When I was given access to the world via of this 'puter, I discovered the most marvelous dictionary...the Webster's 1828. It's amazing how 'modernization' has changed so many meanings over the years. I prefer to think the definitions in the 1828 are what it's s'pose to REALLY be."
What does your 1828 dictionary say about "Fundamentalism"?
Nothing.
The term wasn't used until the 19-teens.
So "Independent Fundamental Baptists" couldn't have been
in the 1828.
Since i've observed history i've see these meanings
of 'Fundamentalism" and related words:
My 1982 dictionary at work says:
"FUNDAMENTALISM - a movement in American Protestantism
that arose in the early parts of the 20th
Century and that stresses the infallibility
of the Bible in all matters of faith
and doctrine, accepting it as a literal historical
record.
In the late 1980's:
FUNDAMENTALIST - one in the book religions
who stresses the basics of their book in
a literal ilnterpertation
In the early 1990's:
FUNDAMENTALIST - a bigot of any religion
In the short space of 10 years,
IFB went from a description of a subspecies of
"Baptist" belief into another epitath for bigots.
As for this misuse of good words, all i know to
do is to roll with the punches. But we sure
cannot ignore it. If we hide our heads in
the sand, nobody will know what we are taking
about.
Praise Iesus, the Sonne of God!
What does your 1828 dictionary say about "Fundamentalism"?
Nothing.
The term wasn't used until the 19-teens.
So "Independent Fundamental Baptists" couldn't have been
in the 1828.
Since i've observed history i've see these meanings
of 'Fundamentalism" and related words:
My 1982 dictionary at work says:
"FUNDAMENTALISM - a movement in American Protestantism
that arose in the early parts of the 20th
Century and that stresses the infallibility
of the Bible in all matters of faith
and doctrine, accepting it as a literal historical
record.
In the late 1980's:
FUNDAMENTALIST - one in the book religions
who stresses the basics of their book in
a literal ilnterpertation
In the early 1990's:
FUNDAMENTALIST - a bigot of any religion
In the short space of 10 years,
IFB went from a description of a subspecies of
"Baptist" belief into another epitath for bigots.
As for this misuse of good words, all i know to
do is to roll with the punches. But we sure
cannot ignore it. If we hide our heads in
the sand, nobody will know what we are taking
about.
--------------------------------------------------
So you proved nothing, demonstrated nothing, and
wasted the Webmaster's bandwidth.
--------------------------------------------------
Since when is PROVIDING God's words wasting bandwidth and PROVIDING NOTHING? I would much better read the scriptures and read what GOD has said about it, than MANS OPINIONS about it. Call the name whatever you like, metaphor, similie, etc., but it doesn't change the FACT that God has indicated that LUCIFER is SATAN.
Webster New World Dictionary:
Lucifer: Satan
Please refer to Proverbs 3.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
So you proved nothing, demonstrated nothing, and
wasted the Webmaster's bandwidth.
--------------------------------------------------
Since when is PROVIDING God's words wasting bandwidth and PROVIDING NOTHING? I would much better read the scriptures and read what GOD has said about it, than MANS OPINIONS about it. Call the name whatever you like, metaphor, similie, etc., but it doesn't change the FACT that God has indicated that LUCIFER is SATAN.
Webster New World Dictionary:
Lucifer: Satan
Please refer to Proverbs 3.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
--------------------------------------------------
By contrast, we have shown that
"Lucifer" is by the KJV1611 Edition
and the King James Version translator's
sacred sidenotes the "day starre".
Sorry, sister, but we can point in the
heavens to the planet Venus and show
when it is the day star, when it is the
morning star, when it is the evening star.
By contrast, the lead devil, the head
demon, Satan (the accuser) is mentioned
multiple times in each version of the
Bible. You have shown nothing but the
futility of building your doctrine (teaching)
on ONE VERSE while virtually TAKING AWAY
the other verses on the matter.
--------------------------------------------------
And you PROVIDE MANS OPINIONS as your PROOF of who Lucifer is, and have then the nerve to say that PROVIDING GOD'S WORDS showing you PROOF, is nothing and a waste of bandwidth? You must be joking, for you have got it backwards.
Proverbs 3
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
By contrast, we have shown that
"Lucifer" is by the KJV1611 Edition
and the King James Version translator's
sacred sidenotes the "day starre".
Sorry, sister, but we can point in the
heavens to the planet Venus and show
when it is the day star, when it is the
morning star, when it is the evening star.
By contrast, the lead devil, the head
demon, Satan (the accuser) is mentioned
multiple times in each version of the
Bible. You have shown nothing but the
futility of building your doctrine (teaching)
on ONE VERSE while virtually TAKING AWAY
the other verses on the matter.
--------------------------------------------------
And you PROVIDE MANS OPINIONS as your PROOF of who Lucifer is, and have then the nerve to say that PROVIDING GOD'S WORDS showing you PROOF, is nothing and a waste of bandwidth? You must be joking, for you have got it backwards.
Proverbs 3
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
>>>To natters: the webster's 1828 has this to say about lucifer: LU'CIFER, n. [L. lux, lucis, light, and fero, to bring.]
1. The planet Venus, so called from its brightness.
2. Satan.
And when he falls, he falls like Lucifer, never to hope again.
>>>To broEdEd: You're absolutely right, but the word fundamental is: FUNDAMENT'AL, a. Pertaining to the foundation or basis; serving for the foundation. Hence, essential; important; as a fundamental truth or principle; a fundamental law; a fundamental sound or chord in music.
FUNDAMENT'AL, n. A leading or primary principle, rule, law or article, which serves as the ground work of a system; essential part; as the fundamentals of the christian faith.
And I don't consider myself an "Independent Fundamental Baptist" as they are known today...why I never even heard of the movement till a couple of years ago!
But I AM independent and a fundamental and a Baptist. Having been born and bred into the southern baptist ranks of olden times, till I married my mister and then changed to his kind of baptist, which was Missionary(ABA)-till they went carnal too.
1. The planet Venus, so called from its brightness.
2. Satan.
And when he falls, he falls like Lucifer, never to hope again.
>>>To broEdEd: You're absolutely right, but the word fundamental is: FUNDAMENT'AL, a. Pertaining to the foundation or basis; serving for the foundation. Hence, essential; important; as a fundamental truth or principle; a fundamental law; a fundamental sound or chord in music.
FUNDAMENT'AL, n. A leading or primary principle, rule, law or article, which serves as the ground work of a system; essential part; as the fundamentals of the christian faith.
And I don't consider myself an "Independent Fundamental Baptist" as they are known today...why I never even heard of the movement till a couple of years ago!
But I AM independent and a fundamental and a Baptist. Having been born and bred into the southern baptist ranks of olden times, till I married my mister and then changed to his kind of baptist, which was Missionary(ABA)-till they went carnal too.
So michelle, I see you are referring to the Latin Vulgate.
I say this to your credit michelle. The blurb I showed you about the translator Jerome; well some of their claims about him are true. He had access to Greek and Hebrew manuscripts from the 2 and 3rd centuries which simply do not exist today.
Most KJVO do not know that the KJV translators held it in high esteem and for this very reason and you will find that the Latin Vulgate in many places stands alone with the KJV in unique readings.
It was translated before the great apostasy of the Church of Rome and held the pre-eminence over the Church at large for 1100 years.
The first English Bibles were translations made from the Latin Vulgate.
It was clearly used of God (yes, even though like the KJV it contained the Apocrypha).
HankD
I say this to your credit michelle. The blurb I showed you about the translator Jerome; well some of their claims about him are true. He had access to Greek and Hebrew manuscripts from the 2 and 3rd centuries which simply do not exist today.
Most KJVO do not know that the KJV translators held it in high esteem and for this very reason and you will find that the Latin Vulgate in many places stands alone with the KJV in unique readings.
It was translated before the great apostasy of the Church of Rome and held the pre-eminence over the Church at large for 1100 years.
The first English Bibles were translations made from the Latin Vulgate.
It was clearly used of God (yes, even though like the KJV it contained the Apocrypha).
HankD
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You have shown nothing but the
futility of building your doctrine (teaching)
on ONE VERSE while virtually TAKING AWAY
the other verses on the matter.
--------------------------------------------------
The mv's that <attack on Bibles snipped> are the ones GUILTY of TAKING AWAY verses of scripture. I do not claim to be giving you the whole cannon of scripture, as I have PROVIDED SOME of the scripture references, hence rightly dividing the word of God for a proper and better understanding of it. We are commanded to do this, and scripture ALWAYS defines scripture.
2 Timothy 2
16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
[ July 30, 2004, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
You have shown nothing but the
futility of building your doctrine (teaching)
on ONE VERSE while virtually TAKING AWAY
the other verses on the matter.
--------------------------------------------------
The mv's that <attack on Bibles snipped> are the ones GUILTY of TAKING AWAY verses of scripture. I do not claim to be giving you the whole cannon of scripture, as I have PROVIDED SOME of the scripture references, hence rightly dividing the word of God for a proper and better understanding of it. We are commanded to do this, and scripture ALWAYS defines scripture.
2 Timothy 2
16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
[ July 30, 2004, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Lets get this thread to 20 pages so we can close it .
.
Michelle:The mv's that claim to be the words of God are the ones GUILTY of TAKING AWAY verses of scripture.
You keep saying this, but you've never attempted to PROVE it. There's a greater case that some material was ADDED than there is for some being omitted.
You keep saying this, but you've never attempted to PROVE it. There's a greater case that some material was ADDED than there is for some being omitted.
