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No Ability to sin in heaven?
- Thread starter 12strings
- Start date
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Revelation 21:22-27
22* And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
22* And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
freeatlast
New Member
I don't know of any passage that exactly says such, but I do think there are some that point to no sinning for the saints. Rev 21:4, 21:8, 21:27, 22:15. Also we are told when we see Him (Jesus) we will be like Him 1John 3:2. So I don't think there will be any of us sinning after we go to be with the Lord. Whether it is the lack of ability or lack of desire I cannot tell you.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
If there were a possibility of sin in eternity, statistically speaking, eventually every single servant of God would commit a sin if he or she had the ability. The new heaven and earth would be empty of its servants of God. This would seem to contradict the description given in the verses above.
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
If there were a possibility of sin in eternity, statistically speaking, eventually every single servant of God would commit a sin if he or she had the ability. The new heaven and earth would be empty of its servants of God. This would seem to contradict the description given in the verses above.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Great verse brother...A great day that will be!
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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humblethinker
Active Member
Is it possible to have an existence that would not be considered 'in' eternity?
humblethinker
Active Member
Is it possible for a person to be so committed to good that they certainly will not sin? If the persons inhabiting heaven were so committed, then there would be no sin there.
This is one of the proofs to me that in reality...FREE WILL...as an entity does not exist.
I do not like to speculate...but I will say that perhaps as elect angels needed to learn about redemption by looking into how God redeems elect sinners....we learn that a will is either bound by sin....or free...only to serve God. We are never .....FREE.... to sin. We are able to sin now here on earth,but once free from this sin cursed body...we will never sin again.
This thought I find much more in line with what I see revealed in scripture:thumbsup:
freeatlast
New Member
Who exactly says that?
From "MB" over on the "Is God really omnipotent" thread...(just today, I think, others have said it also)
If man was without choice (for example, in the future eternity) according to this belief he could not truly love god.
Which would mean that, since God "is love" (the most perfect form of love possible), He would also have to have the greatest "free will" to do evil for His love to be "genuine."
This is typical modern philosophical thinking that permeates some of the psychological work of this day.
If true - it shows that God is only going to express love to those in whom He chooses in rejection of all others.
That as believers - that example is how we too should conduct our own choice of whom to love and reject.
However, the Scriptural principle of the Love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts, doesn't support this thinking.
We cannot "love our neighbors" from self will, such love is frail and fraught with the carnal.
The will of the new nature in which God through Christ has put into the believers AND by the work of the Holy Spirit bringing the believers into growth of virtue, wisdom, knowledge, self control, brotherly kindness ... (see Peters letter) all that goes into such growth and such maturity that the love be not without fruit and meaning.
Anything other is not the love of God. It is man centered and therefore ultimately frail and evil in outcome. Such man centered love is conditional and spent upon self preservation - exampled by Peter, fervent in declaration, but less than faithful at trial.
Holy Spirit driven love, exampled by Peter, testifying before the thousands of the Christ in the Acts.
freeatlast
New Member
I see. Well I would suggest then that some are miss-understanding free will just like when someone equates free will with self will. They are NOT the same any more then free will proves love. God gave His Son and proved His love, not free will.
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humblethinker
Active Member
12strings, Do you think that man can so solidify his character or be so solidified in his love for another person that future opportunities to be unfaithful would go 'unchosen'? I believe that all people in heaven will be people of a solidified character and therefore would never choose to be unfaithful to God. Adam, in contrast, did not have a solidified character before he sinned. Adam's knowledge of God and reality was very limited prior to his disobedience and I would propose that such disobedience did not rise to the level of character solidification against God that would result in him being unredeemable. Satan and et al, however are unredeemable, imo, due to the level of knowledge they had when their choice to disobey was made. In his first choice of disobedience Satan solidified his character such that he would never choose to obey God.
So, for me, the idea that "If man was without choice, according to this belief he could not truly love god" in Adam's scenario is correct. It is also correct for all people in the "future eternity", as you put it, but for them they have already made their choice and they, with the capacity of their knowledge (matured faith) would never choose to do otherwise. So, this is how they can love God in eternity, by making their choice now, which is a process into character solidification, that is, maturing in Christ. I do not think we will finish maturing until the faith that we have is no longer faith and becomes knowledge, which is after we die. If we still choose to love Him while having the weakness inherent in 'faith' then how much more will we choose to love Him when our faith matures into 'knowledge' once we die and are in His presence?
So, I don't see any reason to think that the absence of sin in heaven would be due to the lack of options. I think it more reasonable that the absence of sin in heaven would be due to the inhabitants of heaven being of a solidified character such that even if there were the option to choose to disobey that they would not choose it... and that of their own volition.
This type of world seems much more glorious than a world in which beings are ultimately just pieces of the game of existence, rigged by the creator who moves both sides of the game and then somehow appreciates the glory he gives himself through these pieces as though they gave it through their own volition. How glorious indeed! How does Calvinism escape such a representation?
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We will not have the corruptible flesh in heaven that pulls, tugs, and tempts us to sin in heaven, we will have glorified bodies. We will be spiritually mature in heaven, having the wisdom not to sin. Satan and his fallen angels will not be there to tempt us or spread false doctrine.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Most here probably know what I think, so no need for me to say more.
convicted1
Guest
We will not be able to sin in heaven; here's why:
1) We willl be in the prescence of a triune God, with God the Son, being the Light of that city.
2) We will be in His likeness.
3) We will be given new bodies that will have no sin in them.
4) Most importantly, the deceiver will not be there to deceive us anymore. Neither will we be tempted anymore.