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No Black Nurses

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saturneptune

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In all fairness, I cannot answer this thread with an objective mind. Based on what I saw growing up in Mississippi in the 50s and 60s, I have nothing but contempt for anyone who would even make such a request, absolutely no use for them.
 

Squire Robertsson

Administrator
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I am much of the same mind. Though, I'm a '60s Californian.
In all fairness, I cannot answer this thread with an objective mind. Based on what I saw growing up in Mississippi in the 50s and 60s, I have nothing but contempt for anyone who would even make such a request, absolutely no use for them.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
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Lots of views, but remembert the OP - does he have a leagal right to his request?
 

Aaron

Member
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If taxpayer's money is involved, all kinds of anti-discrimination/segregation laws and regs kick in. This is 2013 not 1913 or even 1963,
My question isn't about what the government is doing. My question is about what it ought to do.

Ought the government force one to accept the services of someone to which he objects for any reason?
 

Oldtimer

New Member
My question isn't about what the government is doing. My question is about what it ought to do.

Ought the government force one to accept the services of someone to which he objects for any reason?

That's my point, exactly. Especially, when I'm paying for the service out of my own pocket.

For example, I have a strong adversion to bodies filled with tattoes. I'm talking about massive amounts of ink. It's their body and in this country it is their freedom to decorate themselves anyway they want.

However, right or wrong, I do not want hands covered with them touching me. Period. Doesn't matter if it's in a medical facility, barber shop, or an airport. Ought the government force me to accept the services of someone which to which I object?
 

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lots of views, but remembert the OP - does he have a leagal right to his request?

He can 'request' anything he wants, but no of course he doesn't have a legal right to force the hospital to grant his bigoted request.
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No, he doesn't have that right - or if he does he jolly well shouldn't. I'm concerned at some comments that seem to suggest that he does have that right based on his ability to pay, which boils down to a rather disgusting version of 'money talks'.
 

Oldtimer

New Member
No, he doesn't have that right - or if he does he jolly well shouldn't. I'm concerned at some comments that seem to suggest that he does have that right based on his ability to pay, which boils down to a rather disgusting version of 'money talks'.

Matt, when you spend your money, however much or little that you may have, do you give up your right to spend it as you please, after rendering to God and to Cesear?

Do you conceed that it's OK for the government to tell you that you must accept a haircut from a gay barber? If you are married that your wife must submit to a "female" exam by a practicing lesbian? Even though she worked hard to earn the money to pay for insurance to cover the exam or is paying directly from her pocket?

As to "money talks", I am as equally disgusted, when the monies I render unto Cesear are used to take freedoms away from other people. If I give money directly to someone else to help them, once those dollars touch their hands, they have the right to spend those dollars as they please.

I may not like what they do with the money. For example, buying booze instead of feeding their family. I may hate it in fact, but that still doesn't take away their freedom, unless they have signed a document stating they'll buy a can of beans.

I contend that the government does not have the right to take away my choice of who touches my body or the bodies of my family members. The only exception that I can think of is when the police search someone, with probable cause, who is suspected of committing a crime.

As ridiculous as it may sound, if I don't want someone with green eyes and red hair providing medical service, the government should not force me to accept that care. If I do not want a Hindu treating me, the government should not force me to accept that care. If I do not want a Baptist preacher to come into my hospital room, the government should not force me to accept a visit from one.

It's all about personal freedom. It's all about personal liberty whether receving medical care, a hair cut, or to worship our Saviour, as I choose.
 

Oldtimer

New Member
Another thought........

Would we be having this discussion if a black had a note in their chart that they did not want white nurse? Or if a male Muslim did not want a Christian female nurse?
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
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It's also about the personal liberty not to be discriminated against. Yes, of course there are limits on how we are free to spend our money: I am not free, for instance, to spend my money on heroin, or on child pornography. Surely you are not advocating that I should be?
 

Oldtimer

New Member
It's also about the personal liberty not to be discriminated against. Yes, of course there are limits on how we are free to spend our money: I am not free, for instance, to spend my money on heroin, or on child pornography. Surely you are not advocating that I should be?

Sigh.......... As a born again believer in Jesus Christ, I'm saddened that you would ask such a question. :tear:

I face discrimination everyday for several different reasons.

Personal liberty, IMO, is that I do not take away others personal liberty for the sake of my own personal gain.
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sorry to cause offence; this was not intended.

So, you accept that one shouldn't take away someone else's liberty. What then of the nurse's liberty to do her job?
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
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It's also about the personal liberty not to be discriminated against. Yes, of course there are limits on how we are free to spend our money: I am not free, for instance, to spend my money on heroin, or on child pornography. Surely you are not advocating that I should be?

Actually Matt brings up a good point - at point do we draw the line.

In the case of child porn - we are exploiting the child - thus a reason for the govt to be involved.

In the case of heroin - when a person uses the it - they basically only harm themselves. Does the govt have the right to protect us from ourselves - Mayor Bloomberg is doing the same thing by limiting the size of soda pop.

Let me add another situation to the basic OP.
I have a slight hearing problem- so when I am seen by a doctor who is from India, Africa, ext; I have trouble understanding what they are saying with the combination of their accent and my hearing problem. Should I have the right to have a doctor who only speaks English?
 

Matt Black

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In your scenario there may be a sound (excuse the pun!) medical reason for having a medic who speaks good English - the need for effective communication with the patient. But there is no clinical reason why a patient should be able to discriminate on the grounds of skin colour.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
I would contend that a patient (paying with his own money) has the absolute right to have a medical personnel of their choice.

So that means someone on Medicaid or in the military must take whomever they are assigned to.

This becomes a MAJOR discrimination issue as you run the risk of more and more folks deciding they don't want people of a certain race doing the job for which they were hired.

And what was with the whole swastika comment? Did he also ask for no Jewish doctors or nurses?

It becomes a major issue when you've got a non-private hospital endorsing discrimination against its employees.

But the suit has been settled and the hospitals CEO said that they had informed the father that his request could not be honored.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Sorry to cause offense; this was not intended.

So, you accept that one shouldn't take away someone else's liberty. What then of the nurse's liberty to do her job?

Matt, no need to apologize! We need to hit these issues head on.

As far as liberty - the question is who has more rights?

One other example - I have a very weak stomach - I have been in checkout lines with clerks that have an excessive amount of earrings in their nose, lips, ect. There was one time, it was so bad, I actually turned around and handed her the money behind me. She told me it would be easier if I turned around. I said I could, but would she want to clean up the mess if I threw up - (literally).
So do I have the right to have an earing free clerk?

Even a lady with short hair and only one set of piercings makes me a bit weesy?

Going back to this man who apparently is a Neo-Nazi; could be that this belief has been so indoctrinated in him, that such physical contact by a black -or even yellow person could make him physically sick.

For virtually any other situation, we are told to be tolerant. Or are we only to be tolerant of PC approved situations.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Would we be having this discussion if a black had a note in their chart that they did not want white nurse? Or if a male Muslim did not want a Christian female nurse?

I hope so. It's a public hospital. They are not allowed to discriminate no matter what a patient requests. They know the law.

Religious issues are completely different.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Matt, no need to apologize! We need to hit these issues head on.

As far as liberty - the question is who has more rights?

They have equal rights. He has the right to make the request. the hospital has the right to say "no, we cannot honor that request" as they say they did.

If he wants to choose the skin color of the people who provide his care, then go to a private hospital in which they would probably be more amenable to meeting specific customer requests.

But this is a state, public hospital run by tax payer dollars.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
...But the suit has been settled and the hospitals CEO said that they had informed the father that his request could not be honored.

The question is "why was it settled". Could it be the hospital was afraid of a trial? The nurse probably has the backing of the public - would probably get free representation of some high profile lawyer. The man, on the other hand is seen as a racist, may not be able to afford a lawyer. (since it is not a criminal offense - there would be no free court appointed lawyer. And the hospital would not want any bad publicity.

Mind you, I am not saying we should support this man, but we are a nation of laws - and had this case went to court, it should be decided on the merits of the law. And who knows, maybe the hospital was afraid the man would win - which would put a bad light on the hospital.

"We must remember that a right lost to one is lost to all."

-William Reece Smith, Jr.

Just keep that in mind, when something happens you don't like. Oldtimer gave some excellent examples in post # 28
 

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Huh?

[he] may not be able to afford a lawyer.
maybe the hospital was afraid the man would win

You seem to be under that impression that your 'well-maybe-he-was-just-nauseous' Nazi was being sued.

He wasn't:

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ted-dads-request-no-black-nurses-lawsuit-says

Tonya Battle, 49, sued the board of hospital managers of Hurley Medical Center in Flint, Mich., and Mary Osika, a nurse manager, on discrimination grounds after Battle said she was reassigned to accommodate the father’s request.

“I didn’t even know how to react,” Battle told the Detroit Free Press, which first reported the story.

Battle is a neonatal intensive care nurse who has worked at the 443-bed public teaching hospital for nearly 25 years. She said she was caring for infants as usual on Oct. 31, 2012 when the infant’s father asked to speak to her supervisor, according to a complaint filed in the Genessee County circuit court.

The father told the charge nurse “he did not want any African Americans taking care of his baby,” the complaint said. While making that statement, he pulled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo “believed to be a swastika of some kind.”

Instead of denying the request, the complaint said, the charge nurse called Osika, who advised her to reassign the baby to another nurse.

“Plaintiff was reassigned on or about Oct. 31, 2012 because she is African-American,” the complaint said. “Plaintiff was shocked, offended and in disbelief that she was so egregiously discriminated against based on her race and re-assigned.”

The next day, the complaint alleged, Osika told staff members the request would be honored. When Battle returned to work on Nov. 2, 2012, the hospital posted a notice on an assignment clipboard that read: “No African-0American nurse to take care of baby.”

No black nurses were assigned to care for the baby for the following month, despite notice from hospital lawyers that the notice should be removed and that the father’s request would not continue to be granted, the complaint alleged.
 
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