You continue to reject the true Gospel of jesus...
When did you place faith in Christ, and how are you sure that your are redeemed by him?
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- Thread starter savedbymercy
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You continue to reject the true Gospel of jesus...
When did you place faith in Christ, and how are you sure that your are redeemed by him?
savedbymercy
New Member
yesh
You have never given me the Gospel of Jesus, it is I who has preached the Gospel to you, and you reject it for your false gospel of works !
You have never given me the Gospel of Jesus, it is I who has preached the Gospel to you, and you reject it for your false gospel of works !
So when did you change from being a hell bound sinner, away from god and estrnaged, to one now saved by His grace?
ALL of us did when we belived in jesus, and received eternal life from God in His name...
How about you?
When did you receive jesus and get saved? when did God switch you from being a sinner to now a saint?
savedbymercy
New Member
If the Elect were not in Christ, that is had a legal Union with Him before they became believers, before Christ went to the cross and died in their behalf, if they had not been in Him, He the Head, and they the Body, His Members before Law and Justice, then when He died for their sins 1 Cor 15:3, there could not have been any legal satisfaction for them in the cross of Christ, meaning Christ did not really legally die in their stead !
God does NOT save anyone by JUST the death of Christ, as He also requires us to be in ini union with Him, in His body, and THAT happens when one places faith in Christ!
savedbymercy
New Member
You see, before one could redeem his brother, according to law, their had to be a union of relationship prior existing ! It is called a kinsmen redeemer ! It is Illustrated in Ruth 3:9-13
9 And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman.
10 And he said, Blessed be thou of the Lord, my daughter: for thou hast shewed more kindness in the latter end than at the beginning, inasmuch as thou followedst not young men, whether poor or rich.
11 And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.
12 And now it is true that I am thy near kinsman: howbeit there is a kinsman nearer than I.
13 Tarry this night, and it shall be in the morning, that if he will perform unto thee the part of a kinsman, well; let him do the kinsman's part: but if he will not do the part of a kinsman to thee, then will I do the part of a kinsman to thee, as the Lord liveth: lie down until the morning.
Ruth 4:
Then went Boaz up to the gate, and sat him down there: and, behold, the kinsman of whom Boaz spake came by; unto whom he said, Ho, such a one! turn aside, sit down here. And he turned aside, and sat down.
2 And he took ten men of the elders of the city, and said, Sit ye down here. And they sat down.
3 And he said unto the kinsman, Naomi, that is come again out of the country of Moab, selleth a parcel of land, which was our brother Elimelech's:
4 And I thought to advertise thee, saying, Buy it before the inhabitants, and before the elders of my people. If thou wilt redeem it, redeem it: but if thou wilt not redeem it, then tell me, that I may know: for there is none to redeem it beside thee; and I am after thee. And he said, I will redeem it.
5 Then said Boaz, What day thou buyest the field of the hand of Naomi, thou must buy it also of Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of the dead, to raise up the name of the dead upon his inheritance.
6 And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it.
7 Now this was the manner in former time in Israel concerning redeeming and concerning changing, for to confirm all things; a man plucked off his shoe, and gave it to his neighbour: and this was a testimony in Israel.
Christ had a kinsman right to redeem the Elect chosen in Him before the world Began Eph 1:4 !
Without that established legal Union, Christ could not have come into the world to redeem them Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them [His Kinsmen] that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
But now, Jesus Christ never had a kinsman relationship with the serpents seed Gen 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
There is no redemption by Christ for the serpents seed, or the children of the devil ! For they were never in Christ Eph 1:4
9 And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman.
10 And he said, Blessed be thou of the Lord, my daughter: for thou hast shewed more kindness in the latter end than at the beginning, inasmuch as thou followedst not young men, whether poor or rich.
11 And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.
12 And now it is true that I am thy near kinsman: howbeit there is a kinsman nearer than I.
13 Tarry this night, and it shall be in the morning, that if he will perform unto thee the part of a kinsman, well; let him do the kinsman's part: but if he will not do the part of a kinsman to thee, then will I do the part of a kinsman to thee, as the Lord liveth: lie down until the morning.
Ruth 4:
Then went Boaz up to the gate, and sat him down there: and, behold, the kinsman of whom Boaz spake came by; unto whom he said, Ho, such a one! turn aside, sit down here. And he turned aside, and sat down.
2 And he took ten men of the elders of the city, and said, Sit ye down here. And they sat down.
3 And he said unto the kinsman, Naomi, that is come again out of the country of Moab, selleth a parcel of land, which was our brother Elimelech's:
4 And I thought to advertise thee, saying, Buy it before the inhabitants, and before the elders of my people. If thou wilt redeem it, redeem it: but if thou wilt not redeem it, then tell me, that I may know: for there is none to redeem it beside thee; and I am after thee. And he said, I will redeem it.
5 Then said Boaz, What day thou buyest the field of the hand of Naomi, thou must buy it also of Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of the dead, to raise up the name of the dead upon his inheritance.
6 And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it.
7 Now this was the manner in former time in Israel concerning redeeming and concerning changing, for to confirm all things; a man plucked off his shoe, and gave it to his neighbour: and this was a testimony in Israel.
Christ had a kinsman right to redeem the Elect chosen in Him before the world Began Eph 1:4 !
Without that established legal Union, Christ could not have come into the world to redeem them Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them [His Kinsmen] that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
But now, Jesus Christ never had a kinsman relationship with the serpents seed Gen 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
There is no redemption by Christ for the serpents seed, or the children of the devil ! For they were never in Christ Eph 1:4
ALL of us were 'children of the Devil", as paul makes it clear thatwe were ALl sinners, and as such before coming to Christ, would be under his kingdom and rule!
turning to jesus brings us into jesus Kingdom, and His reign/rule, and from darkness unto light!
turning to jesus brings us into jesus Kingdom, and His reign/rule, and from darkness unto light!
How do we turn now to Jesus, what shall we do?
Believe in the name of the only begotten of the father, the Messiah, and you shall be saved!
savedbymercy
New Member
It is Finished !
All for whom Christ died, He has by His Death alone for them, perfectly satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, and this Truth remains steadfast regardless if they for whom He died, believe it not, for there not knowing it, not believing it, can undo what Christ hath done for God and them. The Unbelief of the Elect sinner for whom Christ died cannot overturn the satisfaction Christ's Death provided to God's Law and Justice, its been accomplished; For either Christ's Death has propitiated the Father once and for all, for all their sins or it has not. If it has [and it has] it would be contrary to the Justice of God to ever punish, charge any of those Christ died for with sin ! So Paul in understanding this Writes Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who is Christ making Intercession for ? Quite simple, those He died for !
All for whom Christ died, He has by His Death alone for them, perfectly satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, and this Truth remains steadfast regardless if they for whom He died, believe it not, for there not knowing it, not believing it, can undo what Christ hath done for God and them. The Unbelief of the Elect sinner for whom Christ died cannot overturn the satisfaction Christ's Death provided to God's Law and Justice, its been accomplished; For either Christ's Death has propitiated the Father once and for all, for all their sins or it has not. If it has [and it has] it would be contrary to the Justice of God to ever punish, charge any of those Christ died for with sin ! So Paul in understanding this Writes Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who is Christ making Intercession for ? Quite simple, those He died for !
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Rom 8:1
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
HP: It does not matter how one tries to twist this verse, the truth remains. Ones with no condemnation are ONLY those walking after the Spirit and NOT after the flesh. Anyone as a believer that sins, has condemnation. Deny it all one so desires, but it will only lead to condemnation at the judgment. If we desire as believers to be free from condemnation, obedience is required. The only way to be free from sin and corresponding condemnation is to repent and to turn from it, asking God to forgive us afresh for our sins. The notion that all of a believers 'future sins' or present sins are automatically forgiven before we commit them is simply a idea foreign to the Word of God. Forgiveness is for "sins that are past" that we have repented for and forsaken.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
No propitiation for present sins or future sins that remain unrepented of according to Scripture.
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
HP: It does not matter how one tries to twist this verse, the truth remains. Ones with no condemnation are ONLY those walking after the Spirit and NOT after the flesh. Anyone as a believer that sins, has condemnation. Deny it all one so desires, but it will only lead to condemnation at the judgment. If we desire as believers to be free from condemnation, obedience is required. The only way to be free from sin and corresponding condemnation is to repent and to turn from it, asking God to forgive us afresh for our sins. The notion that all of a believers 'future sins' or present sins are automatically forgiven before we commit them is simply a idea foreign to the Word of God. Forgiveness is for "sins that are past" that we have repented for and forsaken.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
No propitiation for present sins or future sins that remain unrepented of according to Scripture.
savedbymercy
New Member
The Now in Rom 8:1 is because until the Elect have their non condemnation status revealed to them, they are ignorannt to it. The Spirit reveals it to them, so from then on they walk according to that spirital revelation, however they were never condemned by God, because Christ died for them Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
sbm, with all due respect, you are twisting the Word of God to fit your own presuppositions.
I certainly agree with this! He is talking about their "walk" rather than their legal position "in Christ."
The term "walk" always has to do with the EXPERIENTIAL practical daily life. In context, the condemnation "after the flesh" he has just described is the EXPERIENTIAL life of the Christian under the power of indwelling sin (Rom. 7:14-25). The condemnation is spelled out in Romans 7:24 - "this body of death" as the condemnation of sin is "death." Significantly this "death" is restricted to his "body" not his "inward man."
The Christian has indwelling sin but also has "the inward man" created in the holy and righteousness of Christ (Rom. 7:21) which law of righteousness the redeemed man serves with his mind (Rom. 7:25) even though his body serves indwelling sin (Rom. 7:25).
Paul is speaking about EXPERIENTIAL life and death as characterized by the walk of the Christian. When the Christian walks "after the flesh" or according to his own power to overule indwelling sin the EXPERIENTIAL consequence is "death" or separation from the fellowship of God. When the Christian walks "after the Spirit" according to the indwelling power of the Spirit the EXPERIENTIAL consequence is "life" and joy and peace in fellowship with God.
The life and death of Christ has provided POSITIONAL victory over sin and death for the child of God but only the INDWELLING SPIRIT provides EXPERIENTIAL victory over sin and death in the daily life of the Christian (Rom. 8:2-4).
In order to "walk after the Spirit" and EXPERIENCE this victory in their daily walk (v. 4) one must not "mind" the things of the flesh because the "mindset" of the flesh (indwelling sin) is at enmity with God and that is why those "in the flesh" (the lost) cannot please God (v. 8).
However, even though the child of God has indwelling sin, he also has the indwelling Spirit where victory over indwelling sin alone resides and therefore is not "in the flesh" but "in the Spirit" because of the indwelling Spirit of Christ (v. 9).
Experiential victory over indwelling Sin is through the power of the indwelling Spirit of God alone through which indwelling sin must be crucified or put to death daily (vv. 10-13). If we do not crucify indwelling sin then we EXPERIENCE death (separation from the fellowship of God) and walk "after the flesh" and thus experience CONDEMNATION. However, when we put to death indwelling sin we EXPERIENCE life and peace and fellowship with God in our daily walk and thus walk "after the Spirit" without EXPERIENTIAL condemnation.
savedbymercy
New Member
It is finished continued !
If God could punish those Christ died for, after punishing them once already in Christ, God would be Unjust to His Son Christ, and renege on The Covenant engagements ! God Justly punished Christ for all their sins. God in His Injustice would be punishing those Christ died for Twice, once in their Surety Substitute and now a Second Time in them. So all who Teach that the satisfaction the Death of Christ made for sinners that He died for, unto God's Law and Justice, on their behalf, and yet you teach many of the same shall perish in their sins [That Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3], you are openly before the world charging God with cold hearted in Justice, making Him out to be a Unjust God. You are teaching that God has and will act contrary to His own Justice, for there is simply no way around it. A persons act of belief has absolutely nothing to do with what on Christ's Sacrifice can and has accomplished before the law and Justice of God, on their behalf [Which is the Eternal Forgiveness of their sins] or Redemption Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. The Eternal Redemption obtained was not for Him Personally, but for those He died for !
Now if He punishes any of the Us of Heb 9:12 for any one sin, to include unbelief, God has set aside the Satisfaction of His Son on their Behalf and becomes Unjust !
If God could punish those Christ died for, after punishing them once already in Christ, God would be Unjust to His Son Christ, and renege on The Covenant engagements ! God Justly punished Christ for all their sins. God in His Injustice would be punishing those Christ died for Twice, once in their Surety Substitute and now a Second Time in them. So all who Teach that the satisfaction the Death of Christ made for sinners that He died for, unto God's Law and Justice, on their behalf, and yet you teach many of the same shall perish in their sins [That Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3], you are openly before the world charging God with cold hearted in Justice, making Him out to be a Unjust God. You are teaching that God has and will act contrary to His own Justice, for there is simply no way around it. A persons act of belief has absolutely nothing to do with what on Christ's Sacrifice can and has accomplished before the law and Justice of God, on their behalf [Which is the Eternal Forgiveness of their sins] or Redemption Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. The Eternal Redemption obtained was not for Him Personally, but for those He died for !
Now if He punishes any of the Us of Heb 9:12 for any one sin, to include unbelief, God has set aside the Satisfaction of His Son on their Behalf and becomes Unjust !
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Biblicist, the notion that one can be positional right with God, yet experimentally serving the flesh, is simply not founded upon the Word of God. Certainly one could have came to faith, and fell into sin, but no where does Scripture indicate that one is in a right standing with God while retaining sin that one has not repented of or forsaken. It is to lay hold of a false hope to believe one is right with God, or that God will find them in the faith in the end while retaining sin. No one can have a certain hope of being found in Christ in the last day that currently is living in sin or failing to honestly repent and turn from their sins. We can only have a solid Biblical assurance of our standing before God as our hearts a free from sin subsequent to repentance and being made free from sin by the blood of Jesus Christ being applied to our sins. Listen carefully to the wording of this passage.
Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
There is no notion of anyone being 'positionally' free from sin while walking in sin and darkness. Cleansing from sin only is accomplished if we are walking in the light. Initially God sees us as walking 'in the light' when we come to Him as repentant sinners looking in faith to Him for forgiveness. God forgives us and governmentally treats us as being free from sin, only as we first are in a state of repentance and faith. He accepts our obedience involving repentance and faith as righteousness as heart purity before Him. It is only in this state of righteousness, a state initially conferred upon us subsequent to repentance and faith, that we are said to be in Christ and having our sins forgiven. There is no indication in Scripture that future sins are automatically atoned for or that we are righteous in any way other than IF we are walking in the light in obedience, or turning from existing sin by repentance and faith. Again, if there is sin in our lives. only as we obey the commands of repentance and faith is the righteousness of Christ imputed to our lives. The acts of repentance and faith required by God for forgiveness are counted to us as righteousness by God, whether initially at salvation, or in order to keep from having our names blotted out of the Lamb's book of Life for disobedience.
Again, the notion that we are positionally righteous before God, while in any other position than one of either obedience or in the midst of sincere repentance and faith, is nowhere found in the Word of God.
":Trust and obey for there's no other way'
To be happy 'in' Jesus, but to truth and obey."
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Tell me HP where can you find among the fruit or works of the Spirit any kind of sin or sins llisted in Galatians 5:22-23??
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Where are all sins found according to in Galatians 5:19-21 in regard to source in a person? The works of what?
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
Now it is no mystery that those "in the flesh" or the lost are characterized by these things (Rom. 8:5-8) and "do" (incompleted action) these things as a matter of practice. However, the only possible source in a child of God for such "works" to originate is in their "flesh...members....this body" where indwelling sin exists (Rom. 7:14-25)
You simply deny what is clearly and explicitly stated in Galatians 5:16-17 in regard to every true child of God:
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Biblicist,
I have explained it to you many times before, but you just cannot grasp the truth.
WE DID NOT COME TO KNOW CHRIST WHILE INDULGING IN THOSE IMPURITIES. That is the Word of God!
We came to know Christ when we HEARD of him and were TAUGHT, with regard to our former way of life, to put off our old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of our minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. See Ephesians 4:18-24.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
HP: Excellent passage to illustrate the truth. Remember one thing if nothing more. " that they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. " Let those words "shall not" sink deep into our hearts and minds.
If one is doing the things mentioned in 19-21, it matters not whether they have been saved, think they have been saved, or plan to be saved someday. They have no hope of eternal life while doing such things, nor will they every inherit eternal life without fulfilling the conditions of forgiveness, which are sincere repentance and faith.
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
HP: Excellent passage to illustrate the truth. Remember one thing if nothing more. " that they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. " Let those words "shall not" sink deep into our hearts and minds.
If one is doing the things mentioned in 19-21, it matters not whether they have been saved, think they have been saved, or plan to be saved someday. They have no hope of eternal life while doing such things, nor will they every inherit eternal life without fulfilling the conditions of forgiveness, which are sincere repentance and faith.
Try reading what Paul actually said! Notice the pronoun "ye" and that in context "ye" is addressing SAVED members in the churches of Galatia.
Your intepretation is irrational as you make Paul command believers not to walk after the flesh when according to you it is impossible for them to do that anyway!
Your interpetation is rediculous as you make Paul tell believers "YE cannot do the things that YE would." when you deny this even applies to believers!
You are a liar by John's definition in 1 John 1:8 and the "truth is not in you" and that is so evident by how you pervert God's Word, pervert the words of others.