And no answer from Alan Gross whatsoever to the fact that "Easter" in the KJV is an anachronism. Not being a linguist or translator, perhaps he did not understand my point.
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No Conflict In The KJV
- Thread starter tyndale1946
- Start date
Very simple. Luke used pascha in Acts 12:4, the same word he used for passover in other passages. In his time, pascha meant only passover. And EASTER DIDN'T THEN EXIST ! No such thing as a pagan Easter! Remember, Caesar sent Herod to PLEASE the Jews. Whcacing James pleased them, so se sought to please them more by letting them dom as they wished with Peter. He knew the Jews wouldn't handle him during Passover Week, so he intended to detain Peter til passover ended. No Easter had anything to do with it !
"Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a goof in the KJV that KJVOs won't admit to !
"Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a goof in the KJV that KJVOs won't admit to !
No such thing as pagan Easter?... Then I suggest you tell that to Rev. Alexander Hislop who published a book in 1858 called The Two Babylons, over 300 pages of pagan rituals, page 103 to 113 covers Easter, in my edition... I doubt if you would be concerned but for those who are, here is the link... Brother Glen
two babylons - Google Search
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
As a linguist, are you accustom to researching definitions of words
technically, for example, "an anachronism"?
There must be an assumption for an anachronism to be thought to be(?):
"a word or phrase from more modern times
put back into a time when it did not exist".
Uhmm. Odd to me.
Sure, it did. What's the matter with you?
My linguistic position is the the World Class KJV translators'
astute grammatical command linguistically
and sophistication regarding Historical dynamics has No Equal.
Such as what one, for instance?
Who told you, "the fact the "Easter" in the KJV is an anachronism"?
Maybe, if you put me in touch with them, I could get somewhere with this.
Why would I have ever intended to?
What difference could it make?
They had a Greek word. Pascha received the addition to its definition
by the connotation contained in The New Testament record;
"As early as the 50s of the 1st century,
Paul the Apostle used the term Pascha to refer to Christ,
and it's likely that Christians in Corinth and Ephesus
interpreted Exodus 12 as referring to the death
and resurrection of Jesus, not just the Passover ritual",
1 Corinthians 5:7 - "Purge out therefore the old leaven,
that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
"For even Christ our passover" G3957 "is sacrificed for us."
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"Easter" in the KJV supplies the implication to pasxa (πάσχα)
of these subsequent terms derived from pasxa (πάσχα),
which clarify and more devinently specify the distinction
between the Jewish/Hebrew pasxa (πάσχα), i.e., Passover
and the New Testament Christian pasxa (πάσχα),
i.e., this Celebration being a crucifixional / resurrectional Observance.
Derived terms;
- πάσχα ἀναστάσιμον (páskha anastásimon, “resurrectional pascha”).
- πάσχα σταυρώσιμον (páskha staurṓsimon, “crucifixional pascha”).
This site also gives 'Easter' as a definition of πάσχα • (páskha),
which doesn't mean anything, except that a definition by usage
in this case gives the exquisite delineation describing and portraying
the more exact position of this extremely important Christian milestone
commemorating the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead,
described in the New Testament while serving to differentiate it
from the Jewish/ Hebrew Passover of The Old Testament
**(and is, therefore, nothing like what defines an an anachronism, etc.)
"Noun
πάσχα • (páskha) n (indeclinable)
- Passover Paschal dinner,
- Passover meal,
- (Christianity) Easter,
- Paschal Lamb"
Strong’s Definitions H6453); the Passover (the meal, the day,
the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it):—Easter, Passover.
G3957 - pascha - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Since, *"Easter, also called Pascha (Aramaic, Greek, Latin)
or Resurrection Sunday, is a Christian festival and cultural holiday commemorating the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead,
described in the New Testament
as having occurred on the third day of his burial
following his crucifixion by the Romans at Calvary,"
then 'Easter" is an event, or **"a thing belonging
or appropriate to a period", *"because the Early Christians
called the Christian Celebration of Easter Pascha in Greek,
which is a transliteration of the Aramaic word Paskha.
*"Paskha is related to the Hebrew word Pesach,
which originally referred to the Jewish Passover festival
that commemorates the Jewish Exodus from Egypt.
*"As early as the 50s of the 1st century,
Paul the Apostle used the term Pascha to refer to Christ,
and it's likely that Christians in Corinth and Ephesus
interpreted Exodus 12 as referring to the death of Jesus,
not just the Passover ritual",
1 Corinthians 5:7 - "Purge out therefore the old leaven,
that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
"For even Christ our passover" G3957 "is sacrificed for us."
therefore,
the **"act of attributing a custom, event, or object*",
such as the word Easter when associated
and attributed to this very real Historical Observation
by the first century Christians, is perfectly appropriate in every way,
linguistically and Historically, etc.
*"The church also called Easter Resurrection Day
as Christianity spread and its ancient roots were incorporated.
"In the Catholic Church, Easter is also known as Eastertide
or Paschaltide, which are festal seasons
that celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus Christ."
*In other words, since the word 'Easter' is referring to
the Christian Celebration of Easter, which is simply
what the Early Christians called Pascha in Greek, Historically,
and was **"a thing belonging or appropriate to a period" of a certainty
in which the Celebration the Resurrection of Jesus Christ existed.
And again the name 'Easter' as **"an act of attributing a custom,
event, or object" to a period" to which it does belong, without a doubt,
since, as stated above, *"The Resurrection Sunday,
as a Christian festival and cultural holiday commemorates
the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead,
described in the New Testament
as having occurred on the third day of His burial
following His crucifixion by the Romans at Calvary,
AND WAS CELEBRATED THEN, BY the Early Christians
WHO called the Christian Celebration of Easter Pascha in Greek."
*Comments with '*', in quotes, from: Easter - Wikipedia.
**(The application of the word 'Easter' as an apropos translation
of Pascha in Greek, proving to be the very opposite
of that which would define an anachronism, said to be"
"a thing belonging or appropriate to a period
other than that in which it exists"
"an act of attributing a custom, event, or object
to a period to which it does not belong."
Definition from Oxford Languages
anachronism definition - Google Search )
Are you saying that you believe
that "Easter" in the KJV is an anachronism?
You don't know what I am?
And you need to back off.
or Resurrection Sunday, is a Christian festival and cultural holiday commemorating the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead,
described in the New Testament
as having occurred on the third day of his burial
following his crucifixion by the Romans at Calvary,"
then 'Easter" is an event, or **"a thing belonging
or appropriate to a period", *"because the Early Christians
called the Christian Celebration of Easter Pascha in Greek,
which is a transliteration of the Aramaic word Paskha.
*"Paskha is related to the Hebrew word Pesach,
which originally referred to the Jewish Passover festival
that commemorates the Jewish Exodus from Egypt.
*"As early as the 50s of the 1st century,
Paul the Apostle used the term Pascha to refer to Christ,
and it's likely that Christians in Corinth and Ephesus
interpreted Exodus 12 as referring to the death of Jesus,
not just the Passover ritual",
1 Corinthians 5:7 - "Purge out therefore the old leaven,
that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
"For even Christ our passover" G3957 "is sacrificed for us."
therefore,
the **"act of attributing a custom, event, or object*",
such as the word Easter when associated
and attributed to this very real Historical Observation
by the first century Christians, is perfectly appropriate in every way,
linguistically and Historically, etc.
*"The church also called Easter Resurrection Day
as Christianity spread and its ancient roots were incorporated.
"In the Catholic Church, Easter is also known as Eastertide
or Paschaltide, which are festal seasons
that celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus Christ."
*In other words, since the word 'Easter' is referring to
the Christian Celebration of Easter, which is simply
what the Early Christians called Pascha in Greek, Historically,
and was **"a thing belonging or appropriate to a period" of a certainty
in which the Celebration the Resurrection of Jesus Christ existed.
And again the name 'Easter' as **"an act of attributing a custom,
event, or object" to a period" to which it does belong, without a doubt,
since, as stated above, *"The Resurrection Sunday,
as a Christian festival and cultural holiday commemorates
the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead,
described in the New Testament
as having occurred on the third day of His burial
following His crucifixion by the Romans at Calvary,
AND WAS CELEBRATED THEN, BY the Early Christians
WHO called the Christian Celebration of Easter Pascha in Greek."
*Comments with '*', in quotes, from: Easter - Wikipedia.
**(The application of the word 'Easter' as an apropos translation
of Pascha in Greek, proving to be the very opposite
of that which would define an anachronism, said to be"
"a thing belonging or appropriate to a period
other than that in which it exists"
"an act of attributing a custom, event, or object
to a period to which it does not belong."
Definition from Oxford Languages
anachronism definition - Google Search )
Are you saying that you believe
that "Easter" in the KJV is an anachronism?
You don't know what I am?
And you need to back off.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"If, for example, the pagans worshiped a goddess
by the name of “Sally” and Christians today
refer to the day of the Lords resurrection as “Sally”,
then surely we have a problem.
"But that is not the case for Saxon Christians using “Easter”
as the name of the day of the Lord’s resurrection.
"As “easter” was a descriptive word that referred to the dawn or sunrise,
we can understand why both pagans and Christians
wished to use the word “east” for their respective purposes.
"Pagans wished to worship a goddess of sunrise
so they called her “Eostre”.
"Christians on the other hand wished to celebrate
a very special dawn, so they called the day “Easter”.
"The resurrection morning = “dawn” par excellence.
"The Bible describes Christ’s resurrection
as being discovered in the “morning” at “dawn”
or at “the rising of the sun” (see John 20:1 where it says
the stone was already rolled aside while “it was yet dark”):
- “In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.” (Matthew 28:1)
- “And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.” (Mark 16:2)
- “Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.” (Luke 24:1)
"We often refer to notable biblical events using par excellence nouns, such as “the fall”, “the flood”, “the exodus”, “the exile”, “the advent”, “the cross”, etc.
“Easter” is the Saxon word for this greatest dawn in all of history.
"By way of metonymical association, this term
which refers to the “dawn” of the resurrection
came to refer to the entire day of the resurrection.
The resurrection = spiritual “dawn”.
Christ’s resurrection is a “dawn” also in a spiritual sense because that is when the light of salvation rose (resurrected) from the darkness of death. The following passages compare Christ to the sun rising from darkness:
- “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.” (Isaiah 60:1-3)
- “But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;” (Malachi 4:2)
- “And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. (Luke 1:76-79)
- “We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:” (2 Peter 1:19)
- “I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.” (Revelation 22:16)
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"Some Christians try to avoid anything that has to do with sunrise imagery, presuming that it is pagan.
"Yet God in his Holy word compares Christ to the rising sun.
"The word, “Easter” (austra in Proto-Germanic and aster in Old Frisian; see above), with its connotation of a sunrise, pays tribute to this biblical imagery of Christ as the “Sun of righteousness”.
"The word translated “dayspring” at Luke 1:78 is “ανατολη”, which means “1) a rising (of the sun and stars); 2) the east (the direction of the sun’s rising)” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon).
"The Old West-Saxon version of the Gospel of Luke translates the word as “eastdæle”, which is the Saxon word for “east/sunrise”.
"Luke 1:78 in West-Saxon reads, “þurh innoþas ures godes mildheortnesse. on þam he us geneosode of eastdæle up springende;” This is another proof that the word “Easter” came from the biblical language of the Saxons.
The etymology of “Easter” is similar to that of Aνατελλω.
“Easter” is etymologically related to “east” (the direction) and refers to the “rising” of our Lord. This connection between the eastern direction and the resurrection makes some Christians nervous about a possible pagan influence. However, there is no reason for such concern because this connection between the eastern direction and the verb “to rise” is even found in the language in which the New Testament was written.
"The Greek verb “ανατελλω (anatello)” means “to rise” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon) and it is the word translated as “arise” in the above passage in 2 Peter 1:19 about Christ rising in our hearts. It is also the word used in Hebrews 7:14 which says that our Lord “sprang out of Juda”.
"And “ανατελλω” is related to the word, “ανατολη (anatole)”, which means, “the east (the direction of the sun’s rising)” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon).
"So there is a connection between the eastern direction and the verb “to rise” even in the language of the New Testament. The writers of the New Testament did not avoid using the verb “ανατελλω” (to rise) despite its derivation from the Greek word for “east”."
WHAT are YOU DOING saying something that I agree with?
I don't get it, any more than I do your other stuff.
Its perplexing.
"Yet God in his Holy word compares Christ to the rising sun.
"The word, “Easter” (austra in Proto-Germanic and aster in Old Frisian; see above), with its connotation of a sunrise, pays tribute to this biblical imagery of Christ as the “Sun of righteousness”.
"The word translated “dayspring” at Luke 1:78 is “ανατολη”, which means “1) a rising (of the sun and stars); 2) the east (the direction of the sun’s rising)” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon).
"The Old West-Saxon version of the Gospel of Luke translates the word as “eastdæle”, which is the Saxon word for “east/sunrise”.
"Luke 1:78 in West-Saxon reads, “þurh innoþas ures godes mildheortnesse. on þam he us geneosode of eastdæle up springende;” This is another proof that the word “Easter” came from the biblical language of the Saxons.
The etymology of “Easter” is similar to that of Aνατελλω.
“Easter” is etymologically related to “east” (the direction) and refers to the “rising” of our Lord. This connection between the eastern direction and the resurrection makes some Christians nervous about a possible pagan influence. However, there is no reason for such concern because this connection between the eastern direction and the verb “to rise” is even found in the language in which the New Testament was written.
"The Greek verb “ανατελλω (anatello)” means “to rise” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon) and it is the word translated as “arise” in the above passage in 2 Peter 1:19 about Christ rising in our hearts. It is also the word used in Hebrews 7:14 which says that our Lord “sprang out of Juda”.
"And “ανατελλω” is related to the word, “ανατολη (anatole)”, which means, “the east (the direction of the sun’s rising)” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon).
"So there is a connection between the eastern direction and the verb “to rise” even in the language of the New Testament. The writers of the New Testament did not avoid using the verb “ανατελλω” (to rise) despite its derivation from the Greek word for “east”."
WHAT are YOU DOING saying something that I agree with?
I don't get it, any more than I do your other stuff.
Its perplexing.
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Please try to communicate clearly.
Again, what are you talking about. Do you have a different definition of anachronism? If so, trot it out.
You're odd to me, too.
Please prove to me your contention that there was a holiday named "Easter" in the first century. Simply disagreeing with me assumes too much.
In logic, this is the fallacy called the appeal to authority. It proves nothing.
Such as "Easter."
As a linguist and Bible translator, a professor of Bible translation, I actually was able to make that judgment myself, believe it or not.
Well of course. I don't think I was obtuse.
Nothing I've seen you write has suggested to me that you are a linguist or Bible translator, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Are you a linguist and/or Bible translator?
Really???? Wow! What's the deal here?
1. You don't have what it takes to debate me?
2. You're threatening me, like you're going to find out where I live and stalk me?
3. I "need to back off" because you can't answer my arguments?
I see no further use in debating you, since you don't deal with my points. I'm currently at a Bible translation "team meeting," hearing and hanging out with Bible translators from Papua New Guinea, India, Mongolia and Mexico (same guy, an awesome missionary), Uganda (one of our grads), etc. This is far more profitable than "sound and fury, signifying nothing."
In any case, neither Herod nor the Jews were observing any "Easter" rite when Herod busted Peter, but the Jews were observing PASSOVER, and Herod knew they wouldn't deal with Peter while passover was ongoing. Thus, he detained Peter, intending to turn him over to the Jews once passover was done. Simple as THAT !
And CAIN married a relative! Simple as that! LOL
Simply WRONG.
Glad to see you finally admit it!
Yes, your assumption is wrong.
Where does the KJV say Cain married a relative ?
Roby, we've been through all this before. Your claim is that God created a whole different race of people for Cain to get a wife from which is totally, highly unbiblical! Where in the world, from Scripture, did you ever get an idea like that? God did not condemn incest until much later in human history. God created Adam and Eve, and the Bible clearly states that Eve is the mother of all living! Cain married either a sister, a niece......in other words, a relative. You don't believe that, which is why I find anything you post irrelevant since you have way too many unbiblical ideas.
Same for me about you, as you believe Godallowed incest between full siblings at one time, then changed His mind & banned it. Scripture says God doesn't change. And you also seem to believe the man-made KJVO myth.
Who knows who the wives of Cain and Abel were but they were not 16 years old when they married and Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters but one thing is sure, all the children of men can trace their genealogy back to Adam, even you and your wife. Two thousand years later, after Cain and Abel married, one of the greatest men who ever lived married his sister. Abraham.