No dead babies, little children, infants in Hell?

[JerryL]

I think you and I may be the only ones on the BB who believe this.

I think it's really simple as well.


And what is double condemnation?? Isn't one condemnation enough to send you to hell?

Nope, I'm with you.

 

[Amy.G]

Nope, I'm with you.

Our numbers are growing. :thumbs:

 

[jdlongmire]

Our numbers are growing. :thumbs:

You do understand that what you believe is a well-refuted heresy called Pelagianism, right?

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlongmire
God elects those He loves. Deuteronomy 10:15, Ephesians 1:4

Jesus' death covers the sins of those he loves. He reveals His loving disposition toward infants in infancy. ("of such is the Kingdom of Heaven" - see: Matthew 11:25, Matthew 21:16, Luke 10:21)

God elects infants/little children that die in infancy and thus gives the gift of saving faith by God's grace to them, because without saving faith it is impossible to please God. Ephesians 2:8, Romans 12:3,Hebrews 11:6

jdlongmire;
You believe that God is omnipresence don't you?
(can be at all places at once)

You believe that God is omniscience don't you?
(knows all things)

Do you believe that His omnipresence and his omnicience work together for Him?

In other words, Is God here now?
Also, is God at the beginning of time now?
Is God at the end of time now?
Does God know when you will die now?

If you believe all these things about God, then God is here now, He sees now who believes in Christ. He also is at the beginning now. So now, while here and also in the beginning, knowing now who believes in Jesus, He knows who to predestinate doesn't He. What great mystery is that? An all knowing God, is right now, at my resurrection, also at the beginning of time. What great thing is it for God to see my long white robe in the resurrection and at the beginning of time, at the same time???

BBob,

 

[Amy.G]

You do understand that what you believe is a well-refuted heresy called Pelagianism, right?

That is not what I believe.

How do you interpret this verse:

Rom 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.


Paul is obviously talking about spiritual death, so how did he die if he was already dead?

 

[jdlongmire]

Bro Bob -

1) God, the Father is independent of time, so this illustration is not relevant.

2) The Father gives the elect, whom he has foreknown, to Christ

The crux of the matter is how one understands "foreknown".

Foreknow as it relates to God is not like prophecy, where one speaks of future events before they happen. Foreknow in the scriptural sense is active, not passive. When God "foreknows" something, it is a decree of His sovereign will.

That is - there is not a set of circumstances that can occur that will stop a foreknown event from occurring.

God foreknows His elect. Not based on "before knowing" some future event, but divinely and sovereignly decreeing "thus shall it be". He foreknows us in eternity, so we are and shall be.

 

[jdlongmire]

That is not what I believe.

How do you interpret this verse:

Rom 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.


Paul is obviously talking about spiritual death, so how did he die if he was already dead?

He was a "dead man walking" - he was not (and all the elect, pre-regeneration, are not) aware of his spiritual death until exposed to the Law through the Spirit.

9. For I was alive, etc. He means to intimate that there had been a time when sin was dead to him or in him. But he is not to be understood as though he had been without law at any time, but this word I was alive has a peculiar import; for it was the absence of the law that was the reason why he was alive; that is, why he being inflated with a conceit as to his own righteousness, claimed life to himself while he was yet dead.



That the sentence may be more clear, state it thus, "When I was formerly without the law, I was alive." But I have said that this expression is emphatic; for by imagining himself great, he also laid claim to life. The meaning then is this, "When I sinned, having not the knowledge of the law, the sin, which I did not observe, was so laid to sleep, that it seemed to be dead; on the other hand, as I seemed not to myself to be a sinner, I was satisfied with myself, thinking that I had a life of mine own." But the death of sin is the life of man, and again the life of sin is the death of man.


It may be here asked, what time was that when through his ignorance of the law, or as he himself says, through the absence of it, he confidently laid claim to life. It is indeed certain, that he had been taught the doctrine of the law from his childhood; but it was the theology of the letter, which does not humble its disciples, for as he says elsewhere, the veil interposed so that the Jews could not see the light of life in the law; so also he himself, while he had his eyes veiled, being destitute of the Spirit of Christ, was satisfied with the outward mask of righteousness.



Hence he represents the law as absent, though before his eyes, while it did not really impress him with the consciousness of God's judgment. Thus the eyes of hypocrites are covered with a veil, that they see not how much that command requires, in which we are forbidden to lust or covet.


But when the commandment came, etc. So now, on the other hand, he sets forth the law as coming when it began to be really understood. It then raised sin as it were from be dead; for it discovered to Paul how great depravity abounded in the recesses of his heart, and at the same time it slew him. We must ever remember that he speaks of that inebriating confidence in which hypocrites settle, while they flatter themselves, because they overlook their sins.

from here

 

[Cutter]

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

"Any" and "all" in the verse of scripture above gives everyone that hears the gospel the opportunity to be saved. If only the elect can be saved then it would conflict with the fact that, "the Lord is... not willing that any should perish..."
If He is not willing that any should perish, yet He has already decided who will hear and be saved takes some twisting of scripture.

 

[jdlongmire]

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

"Any" and "all" in the verse of scripture above gives everyone that hears the gospel the opportunity to be saved. If only the elect can be saved then it would conflict with the fact that, "the Lord is... not willing that any should perish..."

Let's put this in context, please - bold are my notes:

2 Peter 3

7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men (the reprobate).



8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved (the elect), that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.



9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you (the beloved elect), not wishing for any to perish but for all (the beloved elect) to come to repentance.

Alot more consistent in context.

If He is not willing that any should perish, yet He has already decided who will hear and be saved takes some twisting of scripture.

Twisting?

Psalm 95:7
For He is our God,And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand Today, if you would hear His voice,


John 10:3
"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.


John 10:16
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.


John 10:27
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (note the order, there...)


Again, context, context, context...

 

[jdlongmire]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlongmire
You do understand that what you believe is a well-refuted heresy called Pelagianism, right?

That is not what I believe.

If you don't believe that infants are born under the curse of Original Sin and justly condemned for that alone, you do.

 

[Cutter]

Let's put this in context, please - bold are my notes:

Nice try mister, but your bold type and adding to scripture does not overrule what the Word of God says. You cherry pick scripture to support calvinism when you have to take the whole of the Word of God.

 

[Cutter]

Thank God the calvinists cannot remove, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," from the Word! Amen!

 

[jdlongmire]

duplicate delete

 

[jdlongmire]

duplicate delete

 

[jdlongmire]

Nice try mister, but your bold type and adding to scripture does not overrule what the Word of God says. You cherry pick scripture to support calvinism when you have to take the whole of the Word of God.

good grief - please...I am illuminating what is there, not adding anything - feel free to rebut using the same scripture - you can't - God is not saving the reprobate (the ungodly men) - He is saving His beloved (the elect).

 

[jdlongmire]

Thank God the calvinists cannot remove, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," from the Word! Amen!

Yeah, but we understand from the breadth of Scripture that only the elect will call.

 

[Cutter]

good grief - please...I am illuminating what is there,

Oh, so you have exposed yourself! The Bible needs your illumination??? PLEASE!
You need to repent and ask God to let the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the truth and get yourself out of the way!

God said, I AM, then along comes little ol' jdlongmire and says, I am... your funny. :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

If you don't believe that infants are born under the curse of Original Sin and justly condemned for that alone, you do.

Which is it? Are infants elect or not? You have infants being condemned and being elect at the same time.

 

[jdlongmire]

Oh, so you have exposed yourself! The Bible needs your illumination??? PLEASE!
You need to repent and ask God to let the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the truth and get yourself out of the way!

God said, I AM, then along comes little ol' jdlongmire and says, I am... your funny. :laugh:

Mocker, do you not believe that teachers can help in the illumination of the teaching of Scripture or are you autonomous?

 

[Amy.G]

[/B] - God is not saving the reprobate (the ungodly men)

That's not what the Bible says.


Mat 9:13 But go and learn what [this] means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."*

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call [the] righteous, but sinners, to repentance."*


Luk 5:32 I have not come to call [the] righteous, but sinners, to repentance."


Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


1Ti 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.