No dead babies, little children, infants in Hell?

[jdlongmire]

see Al Mohler's position on infants dying in infancy: WHY WE BELIEVE CHILDREN WHO DIE GO TO HEAVEN

So, in agreement with this position:

I contend that Christ's substitutionary death covers the debt of original sin for the elect.

I contend that Christ's actions/statements in Matthew 19:13-15, Mark 10:13-16, Luke 18:15-17 reveals His disposition toward infants/little children.

I contend that infants/little children, dying in infancy, are incapable of fully participating in the ordo salutis.

I contend that God is just and bases His judgment of Man on both the original sin of Adam and the willful sin of the individual - that is - Man is doubly condemned. (Deuteronomy 24:16,2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chronicles 25:4)

So, I contend that since infants/little children, dying in infancy, cannot be doubly condemned, and that Christ revealed God's character on His disposition toward infants/little children ("for of such is the kingdom of heaven"), that all infants/little children, predestined to die in infancy, are therefore elect and predestined for glory, being covered under Christ's substitutionary death for their innate corruption and free of any willful sin-debt.

 

[jcjordan]

I greatly admire Dr. Mohler and I hope that this is true although I don't think I can say that is true without any doubt. Being the father of three miscarried babies though, my greatest comfort isn't in the thought of my children being in heaven.

see Al Mohler's position on infants dying in infancy: WHY WE BELIEVE CHILDREN WHO DIE GO TO HEAVEN

So, in agreement with this position:

I contend that Christ's substitutionary death covers the debt of original sin for the elect.

I contend that Christ's actions/statements in Matthew 19:13-15, Mark 10:13-16, Luke 18:15-17 reveals His disposition toward infants/little children.

I contend that infants/little children, dying in infancy, are incapable of fully participating in the ordo salutis.

I contend that God is just and bases His judgment of Man on both the original sin of Adam and the willful sin of the individual - that is - Man is doubly condemned. (Deuteronomy 24:16,2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chronicles 25:4)

So, I contend that since infants/little children, dying in infancy, cannot be doubly condemned, and that Christ revealed God's character on His disposition toward infants/little children ("for of such is the kingdom of heaven"), that all infants/little children, predestined to die in infancy, are therefore elect and predestined for glory, being covered under Christ's substitutionary death for their innate corruption and free of any willful sin-debt.

 

[donnA]

that all infants/little children, predestined to die in infancy, are therefore elect and predestined for glory, being covered under Christ's substitutionary death for their innate corruption and free of any willful sin-debt.

Been thinking about something like this.

 

[annsni]

I also have 2 lost babies and I feel in my heart that they are at the foot of the Father worshipping Him. But I don't think we'll ever know definitively since the Bible never says "Babies go to heaven". I've heard that God knows what they would choose if they WERE to grow up so He'll judge them according to that but since they DIDN'T choose, I'm not sure God would judge them for something they in actuality did not do.

I'm going to go with Mr. Mohler on this one.

 

[Outsider]

I contend that Christ's substitutionary death covers the debt of original sin for the elect.
Only for the elect? Christ is the Savior of the world. I think He paid the penalty for more than just the babies that die. He even paid it for the ones that live and grow old.

I contend that Christ's actions/statements in Matthew 19:13-15, Mark 10:13-16, Luke 18:15-17 reveals His disposition toward infants/little children.
True. Not just the ones that die. But all children.

I contend that infants/little children, dying in infancy, are incapable of fully participating in the ordo salutis.
We (Church and our association) believe and preach the Age of Accountability. I am glad he preaches it too.

I contend that God is just and bases His judgment of Man on both the original sin of Adam and the willful sin of the individual - that is - Man is doubly condemned. (Deuteronomy 24:16,2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chronicles 25:4)
Christ undone what Adam did. If God doesn't judge infants on original sin, why would He judge older people of it. After all, I think we have done a pretty good job of falling short of His glory all on our own.

So, I contend that since infants/little children, dying in infancy, cannot be doubly condemned, and that Christ revealed God's character on His disposition toward infants/little children ("for of such is the kingdom of heaven"), that all infants/little children, predestined to die in infancy, are therefore elect and predestined for glory, being covered under Christ's substitutionary death for their innate corruption and free of any willful sin-debt.

I am unfamiliar with Al Mohler, but I do not understand why he is trying to sell double condemnation. I don't find Christ teaching it. Sounds like he may be inventing ways to hold on to what he has been taught.

Christ said we must be converted as little children. I do not find it to mean dead children, I believe the Bible shows us that the children He was speaking of where very much alive.

I feel there needs to be more options on the poll.
God bless and many blessings!!!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I agree with Outsider in that there are not enough choices.

We do not know the age of David's son who died as a result of his sin, but David apparently knew without a shadow of doubt that his son was in heaven with the Father.

As to all infants who die being elect, the Word of God nowhere implies such a claim.

Not all saved in the Word of God are said to be elect. John wrote 'To the elect lady and her children,' but when he wrote to Gaius, he did not call him elect but 'in the truth.'

Saying all the saved are elect is wrong for not all who are saved in the Word of God were said to be elect.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I voted that all the infants are elect. One option was enough for me. :laugh:

I also like Spurgeon's sermon on the subject. http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0411.htm

 

[Jarthur001]

Not all saved in the Word of God are said to be elect.

Not sure what you mean hear brother. In trying to understand how do you handle this verse.

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Choosen = election.

Is not this saying no matter what your feeling is on election, that all believers are the elect?


Thanks

 

[Outsider]

Not all saved in the Word of God are said to be elect.

I see it the same way.

Originally Posted by Jarthur001
Is not this saying no matter what your feeling is on election, that all believers are the elect?

Hey good brother,
Not really. He elected for those that believe to be holy and without blame before him in love.
Not saying that He didn't elect some, because I find He did. But some (Non-elect) choose to believe.

This is the way I view it in scripture. Many blessings!!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not sure what you mean hear brother. In trying to understand how do you handle this verse.

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Choosen = election.

Is not this saying no matter what your feeling is on election, that all believers are the elect?


Thanks

I don't see the word 'elected' in the definition of chosen in Ephesians 1:4.

eklegomai simply means chosen... not elected.

 

[Jarthur001]

I see it the same way.

Hey good brother,
Not really. He elected for those that believe to be holy and without blame before him in love.
Not saying that He didn't elect some, because I find He did. But some (Non-elect) choose to believe.

This is the way I view it in scripture. Many blessings!!

So you see this election as not toward the people, but to the plan.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

Does the word "us" not overrule that idea?

 

[Jarthur001]

I don't see the word 'elected' in the definition of chosen in Ephesians 1:4.

eklegomai simply means chosen... not elected.

And what does chosen mean?

On election day as we vote for President will we make a choice?

 

[Rippon]

I don't see the word 'elected' in the definition of chosen in Ephesians 1:4.

eklegomai simply means chosen... not elected.

The next thing you'll come up with is that Christians are not believers. C'mon SFiC, chosen=elected.

 

[Outsider]

Does the word "us" not over rule that idea?

No. He is refering to "us" as believers. He did not know them all individually, but if they believed in Christ, they would recieve his letter and he was their brother and included them in the "us".

God bless and many blessings.

 

[Jarthur001]

No. He is refering to "us" as believers. ....

God bless and many blessings.

Then all believers are elect...right?

 

[Jarthur001]

Mark 13:26-27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

If all believers are not the elect will God not "gather" some believers together but rather leave the believers that are not the elect behind?

 

[Rippon]

Mark 13:27:"And he will send out his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the world -- from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. (NLTse)

 

[webdog]

So, I contend that since infants/little children, dying in infancy, cannot be doubly condemned, and that Christ revealed God's character on His disposition toward infants/little children ("for of such is the kingdom of heaven"), that all infants/little children, predestined to die in infancy, are therefore elect and predestined for glory, being covered under Christ's substitutionary death for their innate corruption and free of any willful sin-debt.

First off, there needs to be an "other" option, because I can't vote for any of the answers as worded.

Second, the above is another dispensation of salvation. Sinners are saved by grace through faith...not because they are deemed "elect". You have faith unnecessary for this nebulous group of individuals defined as "the elect". That is another gospel.

Infants are not sinners, hence they are not spiritually dead (separated) from God. They are "not guilty". Non guilty people are not condemned. It's actually pretty simple.

 

[webdog]

The next thing you'll come up with is that Christians are not believers. C'mon SFiC, chosen=elected.

Well, the OP has the "elect" as neither believers or Christians!

 

[Rippon]

this nebulous group of individuals defined as "the elect".

As many times that Scripture uses the terms elect, election, chosen etc. -- I just do not understand why you refer to the elect as "this nebulous group". If you are a Christian you are part of this "nebulous group" that you denigrate.That is puzzling.I can understand why a non-Christian would have that attitude, but not a believer.