No Doctrines Are Changed?

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by gb93433:
As a Baptist are you saying that you support outside translations of the Greek word?

What is an "outside" translation?

Why not skanwmatos the immerser?

Because I am a Baptist and I am not ashamed of that name.

I just don't see how you can support that theologically, historically, and textually.

Support what? You are the only one who has suggested I'm not Baptist!

Why muddy the waters? That kind of murkiness has opened the door for all kinds of theology which I believe is incorrect. It has kept open the door for infant baptism. It has opened the door for pentecostals in their second blessing theology. That is the reason why I criticize it. I prefer to stick closer to the actual translation rather than open a wider door of theology. If you even look at lexicons published by non-immersers they will give the correct meaning of the word but their theology does not coincide with the definition they just gave. The Greek word means to dip, immerse, or wash. Why open the door to include more than it should? Even if they didn't have a word for immerse until later, why continue in the same tradition? We have that word today. If we truly do use the Greek manuscripts then why not translate it from them without using a tradition that is wrong. Why not correct it now?

Have you read the bible, any bible, lately? The ASV? The RSV? The NIV? The ESV? All use the same terms as the KJV. They say "baptize." So, it would seem to me that your argument is not with the word "baptize." Your argument is with ever bible currently in print, and even, quite possibly, the English language itself!

That is your assumption not mine.

Actually the accusation of being paedobaptist was yours.

 

[Ed Edwards]

2 Peter 3:11-12 (HCSB):

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way,
it is clear what sort of people you should be
in holy conduct and godliness
12 as you wait for and earnestly desire the coming
of the day of God, because of which the heavens
will be on fire and be dissolved,
and the elements will melt with the heat.

Thus the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB),
my final authority written word of God (not to be
confused with the Real Final Authority, the
Living Word of God: Messiah Iesus) verifies the
primary reading of the KJV1611.

 

[gb93433]

skanwmatos:

Simply put I believe that we are continuing to support a tradition that has existed for many many years if we say nothing. I am sure you know that there is a lot of tradition supported in all kinds of translations. Personally I don't like what any of the translations have done to the word baptizo and baptisma.

You may like being called a Baptist and that is your right. But I would rather be one who is called by God to make a strong stand on what scripture teaches even if it means I go against tradition.If Baptist fits that, great. If not, then great. I will call myself a Baptist until the day they stray from God's word. My theology is not dependent upon the name Baptist but upon scripture. I seek to try and learn what scripture teaches not what Baptists believed. As I am sure you know that what Baptists have believed has gone the spectrum over the centuries. As believers what else do we stand on except God's word and God himself. Perhaps it may because I grew up in a home where religion abounded and one church I pastored before I came reguarly invited the Mormon bishop to come and preach at Christian events all in the name of fairness. I have seen enough religion to last me for eternity. Why do you think there are those who only taste and not experience the real Jesus? I believe it is because the non-believer does not see who the real Jesus is and merely responds to what others tell him.

I don't believe that I ever suggested that you are not Baptist. If you believe I suggested that, then please forgive me. I have read many of your postings and am convinced that you are Baptist. I just don't agree with your way of continuing to support a tradition that does not translate the Greek word for baptize and baptism. I think it is not being honest with the history of the word in the OT and NT but does support a tradition I believe is wrong.

If we always went with tradition we would support all kinds of other foolish doctrines aligining with a religious tradition that is incorrect. As Baptists are we not to stand for what is right even if it is not convenient? I just don't agree with you on simply supporting the tradition of the translation of baptisma and baptizo. Just think about what preceded Baptists--pedobaptists. Just think about the name Anabaptists. It was the Anabaptists who stood for scripture. They stood for what scripture teaches and not tradition. They paid a heavy price for their beliefs. That challenges me to live closer and closer to Jesus. Imagine how God used the integrity of Martin Luther? What we enjoy today is because of those who have gone before us. I just don't think we can sit by and let a faulty tradition continue. I think what is happening in America speaks for itself.

One question: How do you personally address the issue of baptism without going back to the correct meaning of baptism in the Greek text?

We do have the word "immersion" so why not use it. I have found many people to be helped when I tell them to plug the correct meaning of that word and pull out baptism. The baptism issue seems to becomes a non-issue. That may be simplistic but I have seen the struggles stop especially when it comes to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I do appreciate your challenges. I have learned a few more things because of them. So thanks.

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by gb93433:
One question: How do you personally address the issue of baptism without going back to the correct meaning of baptism in the Greek text?

Simple. Baptism is the immersion of a proper candidate (born again), using a proper method (full immersion), for a proper motive (obedience to the Lord), by a proper authority (a local church).

The baptism issue seems to becomes a non-issue.

The proper mode of baptism is a non-issue with us. We know what scriptural baptism really is.

That may be simplistic but I have seen the struggles stop especially when it comes to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Oh boy!

 

[Plain Old Bill]

There are a few in this thread who cannot debate or discuss without name calling.I sure hope you are not pastors.What a heart it is that cannot debate or discuss honest differences without resorting to name calling.Shame!