"No Justice-No Peace?" * JUST WHO ARE THEY KIDDING???? *

[Wesley Briggman]

I hope you realize, at some point, that this statement means the only person you know that agrees with you is......you.... yourself.

Peace to you

I am well aware of that fact. None of these people challenge me. They, including you, have no scripture to support their acceptance of this fabrication of our nations Christian foundation. Rather than admitting they have been duped, they ignore the confrontation. Such lack of response does not mean their convictions are correct and mine are wrong. I have posted my position numerous time on the board with no response supported by scripture.

 

[canadyjd]

I would argue that the founders understood and espoused Christian virtues. They held the correct premise that humans, by nature, are morally corrupt and need checks against gaining absolute power.
This does not, however, mean that people were Christians. Yes, there were some founders who were Christian. The percentage of the population was higher then than it is today regarding Christian faith. Yet, we see men like Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine who were by no means Christians, yet they upheld virtues that Christians also upheld. They were classically educated and thus they held principles that a Christian would hold.
Make no mistake, however, there was much corruption, greed and evil in the colonies and in the United States. Our founding fathers never gave up the evil practice of slavery. In essence, they never "tore down the high places of idol worship."

You make a valid point. I never claimed all the founders were Christians, but influenced by Christian beliefs.

Perhaps the most important belief, you have aptly articulated. Men are, by nature, corrupt and abuse power if possible. Thus, the checks and balances in the constitution were a brilliant compromise.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I am well aware of that fact. None of these people challenge me. They, including you, have no scripture to support their acceptance of this fabrication of our nations Christian foundation......

When I first began posting on this board I would spend a lot of time researching scripture and posting verses to support my position.

Only once or twice did others respond to what I posted in an honest effort to engage the text. 99 percent of the time, all that work is ignored or dismissed out of hand.

You have continued that record. I posted that the statement in the DOI that all men are created equal is supported by scripture that tells us God created all men in His image.

You did not engage that argument, but ignored and dismissed it out of hand. Rather, you post some non-sense about drinking cool-aide. The same can be said for the other points I made.

And so, you remain confident that no one can challenge you and that you are the only person that understands.

thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Wesley Briggman]

And so, you remain confident that no one can challenge you and that you are the only person that understands.

I did not intentionally discard your argument. I apologize. Hopefully you will continue to engage with me on this subject.

Based on your statement quoted above, I once again have been misunderstood. I did not say no one can challenge me. They have either chosen not to challenge me or they cannot find specific scripture to support their position. The scriptural support they invoke is very much by inference.

I have started a response to one of your former posts. It is still in "draft" mode.

Best regards to you.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/november/bible-never-says-all-men-are-created-equal.html
The Bible Never Says ‘All Men are Created Equal’

"How the New Testament offers a better, higher calling than the Declaration of Independence."

Only Adam and Eve were created. Only Jesus Christ was conceived in Holy Righteousness, without a sin nature.

Psa 51:5 KJV - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

[canadyjd]

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/november/bible-never-says-all-men-are-created-

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/november/bible-never-says-all-men-are-created-equal.html

The Bible Never Says ‘All Men are Created Equal’

"How the New Testament offers a better, higher calling than the Declaration of Independence."

Only Adam and Eve were created. Only Jesus Christ was conceived in Holy Righteousness, without a sin nature.

Psa 51:5 KJV - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/november/bible-never-says-all-men-are-created-equal.html
Though I appreciate the link to CT, an article from 2016, doesn’t express what the founders of this country believed in 1776 and beyond.

What they believed was reflected in the DOI and constitution. They believed scripture supported the idea that all men were created equal and put that foundational belief in the DOI.

Additionally, your use of colored font has somehow effected my font. I am not trying to use bold letters so don’t assume that means anything.

peace to you

 

[Particular]

‘“Piety that does not produce a passion for social justice and practical mercy is useless and displeasing to God...the authenticity of our worship on Sunday is validated or not by our justice [actions] on Monday." ~ Pastor John Piper

 

[canadyjd]

I guess the definition of “social justice” is key.

peace to you

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

‘“Piety that does not produce a passion for social justice and practical mercy is useless and displeasing to God...the authenticity of our worship on Sunday is validated or not by our justice [actions] on Monday." ~ Pastor John Piper

When it comes to these matters, Piper is about as useful as was Whitefield, in other words backward, causing problems rather than solving them.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Though I appreciate the link to CT, an article from 2016, doesn’t express what the founders of this country believed in 1776 and beyond.

You are correct. The 2016 article expresses truths based on God's revelation, not on the lies of arrogant men.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

"We" includes them and you. Not me.

Truths being self-evident is contrary to scripture. Without the Holy Spirit revealing God's truth, natural man believes the lies.

All men are created equal has been proven un-scriptural.

Endowed by their Creator, perhaps. They do not identify their creator. If they are referring to the God of the Bible, they are attributing to God things He never endorsed. They are believing lies.

"...certain unalienable rights, that among these..." More lies. They shared three from "among these." It is implied there are more than these three.

 

[canadyjd]

You are correct. The 2016 article expresses truths based on God's revelation, not on the lies of arrogant men....All men are created equal has been proven un-scriptural.......

The article you referenced points out the word “equality” is used rarely in scripture. When speaking of the relationship believers have with each other, “oneness” or “unity” is used. Jesus also spoke of loving one another as God loved the Son.

So, we can take from that we should pursue unity with all brethren, regardless of race and recognize we should love all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of race.

Do you agree?

Peace to you

 

[Wesley Briggman]

So, we can take from that we should pursue unity with all brethren, regardless of race and recognize we should love all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of race.

Do you agree?

Based on the following scriptural precautions (there might be others), no, I do not.

2Th 3:6 KJV - Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly,[G814] and not after the tradition which he received of us.
2Th 3:11 KJV - For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly,[G814] working not at all, but are busybodies.[G4020]


The KJV translates Strong's G814 in the following manner: disorderly
out of ranks (often so of soldiers)
irregular, inordinate, immoderate pleasures
deviating from the prescribed order or rule

The KJV translates Strong's G4020 in the following manner: be a busybody
to bustle about uselessly, to busy one's self about trifling, needless, useless matters
used apparently of a person officiously inquisitive about other's affairs

Pro 27:17 KJV - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[canadyjd]

Based on the following scriptural precautions (there might be others), no, I do not.

2Th 3:6 KJV - Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly,[G814] and not after the tradition which he received of us.
2Th 3:11 KJV - For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly,[G814] working not at all, but are busybodies.[G4020]


The KJV translates Strong's G814 in the following manner: disorderly
out of ranks (often so of soldiers)
irregular, inordinate, immoderate pleasures
deviating from the prescribed order or rule

The KJV translates Strong's G4020 in the following manner: be a busybody
to bustle about uselessly, to busy one's self about trifling, needless, useless matters
used apparently of a person officiously inquisitive about other's affairs

Pro 27:17 KJV - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Those passages say nothing of race. As long as the brothers and sisters in Christ are not walking disorderly or as a busybody, you would embrace them with Christian unity and Christian love regardless of race? Do you agree?

peace to you

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Those passages say nothing of race. As long as the brothers and sisters in Christ are not walking disorderly or as a busybody, you would embrace them with Christian unity and Christian love regardless of race? Do you agree?

Children of God are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:28 KJV - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[canadyjd]

Children of God are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:28 KJV - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Yes we are. Would you embrace such children of God with love and unity regardless of race?

peace to you

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Yes we are. Would you embrace such children of God with love and unity regardless of race?

peace to you

Here is a list of Bible verses that mention race:
Psa 19:5 KJV
Ecc 9:11 KJV
1Co 9:24 KJV
Heb 12:1 KJV

Perhaps one or more of these verses will satisfy your obsession with the subject.

2Ti 2:22 ESV - So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 ESV - Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.

Based on the scriptural advise in the passage listed above, I am ending your attempt to breed quarrels. Therefore, you are the most recent addition to my ignore list.

 

[canadyjd]

Here is a list of Bible verses that mention race:
Psa 19:5 KJV
Ecc 9:11 KJV
1Co 9:24 KJV
Heb 12:1 KJV

Perhaps one or more of these verses will satisfy your obsession with the subject.

2Ti 2:22 ESV - So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 ESV - Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.

Based on the scriptural advise in the passage listed above, I am ending your attempt to breed quarrels. Therefore, you are the most recent addition to my ignore list.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

........
All men are created equal has been proven un-scriptural.......

Gen 9:6 says all men are made in God’s image. That fact speaks to equality in the eyes of God, and certainly gives the claim in the DOI biblical support.

peace to you

 

[atpollard]

They have either chosen not to challenge me or they cannot find specific scripture to support their position.

At the surface, this seems like a nonsensical request. Why should anyone even bother to look for a scripture that states that America was founded as a Christian Nation? Where would one look for it? In the books of the Bible written 1700 years before there was a United States? How about the Book of Mormon, since that was at least written after the founding of the Nation?

For that matter, should we search for verses on whether automobiles are good or evil?

What exactly is it that you are supposedly looking for?
The “United States of America” appears in no scriptural verse, but I know of no person except you that is asking for a verse about it.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

What exactly is it that you are supposedly looking for?

Declaration of Independence says:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."


"We" includes them, the signers, not me.

Truths being self-evident is contrary to scripture. Without the Holy Spirit revealing God's truth, natural man believes lies.

All men are created equal has been proven un-scriptural.

Endowed by their Creator, perhaps. They do not identify their creator. If they are referring to the God of the Bible, they are attributing to God things He never endorsed. They are spreading lies.

"...certain unalienable rights, that among these..." More lies. They shared three from "among these." It is implied there are more than these three.

The Bible Never Says ‘All Men are Created Equal’
The Bible Never Says ‘All Men are Created Equal’

I am challenging those who endorse, repeat and endorse these statements for the DOI to support them from scripture.

At what time in our history was the USA declared to be a nation "founded in Christian values"? What are those values and what Biblical passages validate them?