No taking up cross - no heaven ?

[BobRyan]

And then on the other hand - there is the "actual" Bible.

Therefore the “loss of salvation” is seen whenever that state of salvation is explicitly seen to be revoked, when our acceptance and peace with God is denied by God.

#1. Turned over to Satan 1 Tim 1
#2. A certain terrifying expectation of Judgment to come – Heb 10
#3. Forgiveness revoked Matt 18 – old massive debt is now put back on us.
#4. Christ denying us 2Tim 2
#5. The shipwreck of faith 1 Tim 1
#6. Impossible to be renewed again having been partakers of the Holy Spirit Heb 6
Bound up to be burned – John 15, Heb 6
#7. Enslaved to sin again – as a dog that returns to its vomit



Turned over to Satan – in the shipwreck of faith

1Tim 1

18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them[/b] you fight the good fight,
19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be [b]taught not to blaspheme.

Denied by Christ instead of His “confessing us before God and His angels” –


[quote]2 Tim 2[/b]
11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 [b]If we endure, we will also reign with Him; [b]If we deny[/B] Him, He also [b]will deny us;[/B]
13 [b]If we are faithless[/b], He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
14 Remind them of these things[/b], and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.
[/quote]

Soul bound by sin and under the condemnation of death

James 5

19-20, "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back[/b], let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."

Just "so much more Bible" to be "ignored" by those who cling blindly to man-made-tradition over scripture.

But for the rest of us - we are free to listen to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit - to "take heed" - to pay attention to "The Word of God" that the preterists say we should "ignore".

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Forgiveness revoked –

Matt 18
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, ""Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?''
22 Jesus said to him, ""I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

23 ""For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 ""When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25 ""But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 ""So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.'
27 ""And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 ""But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, "Pay back what you owe.'

Matt 18 <[

b]Forgiveness Revoked!>[/B]

29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

Severed FROM Christ and Fallen from grace

Gal 5

Gal 5

4 [b]You have been severed from Christ[/b], you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Peace with God replaced by a certain terrifying expectation of judgment to come

Heb 10
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.[/b]
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment[/b] do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Fallen and yet hoping to be “grafted BACK in again” into the vine of Christ!

Rom 11

18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness[/b]; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And [b]they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Having escaped, and tasted of the future life and been partakers of the Holy Spirit – fallen away and then burned.

Heb 6

4 For in the case of [b]those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit

,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have [b]fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance

, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if [b]it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless[/b] and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

 

[Hope of Glory]

In the early stage of my life after I was born again, I thought the born-again believers would not be vile nor commit grievous sins.
But as time goes on, I have noticed how much sinful the human nature itself is, and the human nature still exist within us even though we don't rely on it, we don't follow it after we are truly born again.

Yes, saved people can be as vile, if not much more so, than most unsaved people.

A person can be a worker of many great works, and live a clean life, and still be unsaved and destined for the lake of fire. On the other hand, a saved person can have no good works, many vile works, and live a life that is not even fit for the sewer, and although he would receive a harsh judgment, God is faithful.

It shows the importance of believing on the Lord Jesus.

But, just as with a little baby, your life does not end when you are born; it just begins. We should go on from there, or we will atrophy, and we will perish; we will lose our lives in the age to come.

 

[BobRyan]

Here we see God's view of "the vile saved person" argument - the "faith without works claim"

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=783285&postcount=82

Good texts to gloss over and avoid if you want to believe in "faith without works" anyway.