Noah and the flood

[Alcott]

Which of the following statements do you think is true concerning Noah and the flood?

 

[SaggyWoman]

bump bump bump bump bump it up.

 

[donnA]

why does it always surprise me that there are christians who do not beleive what God says.

 

[Alcott]

Trying to keep discussion on one point, or closely related points, at a time... for those who answered "Noah preached repentance for 120 years before the flood," what is your basis for that? God told Noah that he and his family only would survive-- so what would have been gained by preaching repentance? A 'rival' ark? or would any 'converts' have been allowed in Noah's, even though that's not what God had said?

While we can't post all possible relevant answers as poll options [I still miss the old poll system], another option could have been that the phrase "his days shall be a hundred and twenty years" could have the double meaning that it meant God told Noah about the flood 120 years before it happened (which I remember being taught as a kid in Sunday School), and that men shall stop living for several centuries and normally be limited to 120 years ("his days...").

 

[Jon-Marc]

The number of species of animals, fish, birds, and insects we have today has nothing to do with what was in the world before the flood.

Many have cross-bred and made a new species. I have seen the offspring of two different but similar species. They have characteristics of both parents but are a new and different species.

 

[matt wade]

Trying to keep discussion on one point, or closely related points, at a time... for those who answered "Noah preached repentance for 120 years before the flood," what is your basis for that? God told Noah that he and his family only would survive-- so what would have been gained by preaching repentance? A 'rival' ark? or would any 'converts' have been allowed in Noah's, even though that's not what God had said?

We know Noah preached to the people. We are told in 2 Peter 2:5:

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

 

[Bro. Curtis]

1 Peter 3:20 (King James Version)


Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I believe SPECIES is not equal to KIND (KJV)

Gen 6:20 (NIV):

Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

A 'kind' would be like 'beetle' (with over 179K species). All the beetle species evolved after the flood.

I believe Genesus 1 is true - I may not beleive it is true like anybody else does; however, but grant you the Liberty in Christ to be Wrong :godisgood:

 

[Alcott]

The number of species of animals, fish, birds, and insects we have today has nothing to do with what was in the world before the flood.

Many have cross-bred and made a new species. I have seen the offspring of two different but similar species. They have characteristics of both parents but are a new and different species.

Then you do accept evolution in terms of speciation; right?

 

[Alcott]

We know Noah preached to the people. We are told in 2 Peter 2:5:

That doesn't answer the previous questons, though. What was to be accomplished by preaching repentance? Would any converts have been allowed in the ark, or perhaps tried the ark idea themselves?

 

[Alcott]

I believe SPECIES is not equal to KIND (KJV)
Gen 6:20 (NIV):
Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.
A 'kind' would be like 'beetle' (with over 179K species). All the beetle species evolved after the flood.

Evolution sure works quickly, doesn't it? Counting the years from Noah to the patriarchs to Moses to David to Christ and forward, that comes out to more than 40 new species of beetle per day.

 

[Steve_S]

I tend to see this as more of a parable

 

[Marcia]

I tend to see this as more of a parable

Why?

If the OT relates it as a historical event, and the NT refers to Noah as a real person and to the flood as a real event, and if Jesus referred to Noah, why is it hard to believe as a literal story?

I copied the NT references to Noah below from Biblegateway.com

1. Matthew 24:37
   "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
   Matthew 24:36-38 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 24:38
   "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
   Matthew 24:37-39 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)
3. Luke 3:36
   the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
   Luke 3:35-37 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
4. Luke 17:26
   " And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
   Luke 17:25-27 (in Context) Luke 17 (Whole Chapter)
5. Luke 17:27
   they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
   Luke 17:26-28 (in Context) Luke 17 (Whole Chapter)
6. Hebrews 11:7
   By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
   Hebrews 11:6-8 (in Context) Hebrews 11 (Whole Chapter)
7. 1 Peter 3:20
   who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
   1 Peter 3:19-21 (in Context) 1 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
8. 2 Peter 2:5
   and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
   

 

[matt wade]

I tend to see this as more of a parable

You've got a new haircut and look more like a man, but you need to go back to a childlike faith!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Evolution sure works quickly, doesn't it? Counting the years from Noah to the patriarchs to Moses to David to Christ and forward, that comes out to more than 40 new species of beetle per day.

Unfortunately if creation took place in six each 24-hour-long days -- this still does not give us the right to use all the oil in the world in 120 years.

Does it 'bug' you if evolution works fast :tonofbricks:
I still wonder about the literal 24 Million year long creation day 'day'

 

[Alcott]

Unfortunately if creation took place in six each 24-hour-long days -- this still does not give us the right to use all the oil in the world in 120 years.

Maybe it will all end with all the oil ends; so that's how "our days shall be a hundred and twenty years."

Does it 'bug' you if evolution works fast

Nope. But with 40 new species of beetles a day... I guess the Beatles had it right for themselves... "It's been a hard day's night....."

I still wonder about the literal 24 Million year long creation day 'day'

Where does that number come from, and what do you wonder about it?

 

[donnA]

Why?

If the OT relates it as a historical event, and the NT refers to Noah as a real person and to the flood as a real event, and if Jesus referred to Noah, why is it hard to believe as a literal story?

I copied the NT references to Noah below from Biblegateway.com

1. Matthew 24:37
   "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
   Matthew 24:36-38 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 24:38
   "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
   Matthew 24:37-39 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)
3. Luke 3:36
   the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
   Luke 3:35-37 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
4. Luke 17:26
   " And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
   Luke 17:25-27 (in Context) Luke 17 (Whole Chapter)
5. Luke 17:27
   they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
   Luke 17:26-28 (in Context) Luke 17 (Whole Chapter)
6. Hebrews 11:7
   By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
   Hebrews 11:6-8 (in Context) Hebrews 11 (Whole Chapter)
7. 1 Peter 3:20
   who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
   1 Peter 3:19-21 (in Context) 1 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
8. 2 Peter 2:5
   and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
   

Doesn't look like bible writters thought it was a parable.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed: // I still wonder about the literal 24 Million year long creation day 'day' //

Alcott: // Where does that number come from, and what do you wonder about it? //

The 24-Million-year yom (hebrew for 'day') is a 'for example'. It contrasts with the 24-hour yom (hebrew for 'day'). Every million years or so for the last 1,000 Million (i.e. 1 Billion) the layers around the world, the when and where have been cored and the layers related.

by 'strata' i literally refer to:

1. the layers laid down underwater the last Billion years but not eroded off yet
2. these layers are known as 'flood deposit' by the 'literal' 1-yom=24-hour folk and are found round the world

the 'literal' 1-yom=24-hour folk HOWEVER, don't realise there are lots of layers of volcanic material (came from what the Ice Landers call 'hellos' /below/ (from which we get or KJV word 'hell'' )

BTW, using the maps and other data of the geologists helps the P.E. (petrolemium engineer) find more oil than the maps and data of the the 'literal' 1-yom=24-hour folk -- All the six miles of layers above the oil (right now I don't have time to search for info about the layers under the oil) -- those layers were laid down from 115 Million years to 65 Million years ago - for the last 65 Million years they have been eroding away. The process of eroding first turns the stone into soil (where things can grow) then washes it down into the Gulf of Mexico - ever since the Rockies got pushed up. Anyway, the soil in west OK raises lots of wheat for the Northern Koreans to eat so they won't blow up Hawaii.

Every thing is related to everything else, you know -- and Jesus saves -- we need to save oil for the Millennial Messanic reign of Messiah Jesus. Amen! Oh yes, it would probably take a few tens of million of years to boil off all the oceans. Maybe by then we can can convince the DENIERS that maybe it wouldn't hurt to give as much consideration to slowing down global warming - maybe even more then we give consideration to having a nice lawn in the front of our house.
BTW, I was suffering that my heat pump can't keep up with the sun and the 99-degree-F weather. It was 80 inside (I'm old enough I'm hot at 74 and get sick to my stomach -- I'm going to see my general Doctor Friday about it. The heat compounds my heart problems, COPD, GERD, and mental problems. At least the heat helps remind me to keep my spiritual things in order, just in case I'm wrong about OSAS
Global warming word of the day:
Palegeography maps
So what I was trying to say is that 24-million-year yom (hebrew for 'day') is just as literal as 24-hour-day yom (hebrew for 'day').
Here is a nice map of 'North America' 25 million years ago. Please note the Florida reef and the river that goes from what is now west OK through what is now texas to the Gulf.

http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/namPo25.jpg

But hey, if we didn't intend to use up all the world's oil in the next 60 years, we wouldn't need to know all that. Just think - willy-nilly oil usage causes heathenism :-(

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Brother Ed, my brother in Christ tells us the KJVOnlyers cannot claim extra revelation, and rightly so.

Then, Brother Ed, my brother in Christ claims extra revelation, putting a time table on the "subdue the earth" command, and wrongly so.

But he has the liberty in Christ to be wrong.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Brother Ed, my brother in Christ tells us the KJVOnlyers cannot claim extra revelation, and rightly so.

Then, Brother Ed, my brother in Christ claims extra revelation, putting a time table on the "subdue the earth" command, and wrongly so.

But he has the liberty in Christ to be wrong.

Works for me :type: