Non Alcoholic Beer

My big problem with folks drinking alcohol is that it is a "mood altering drug". People seem to lose all their inhibiitions when they use it. It can turn a normal person into a monster when consumed heavily. It is extremely addictive and those who use it quite often become alcoholics before they know what hit them.
Yes, Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach, but "just a little". Too often people use this as an excuse to drink the whole bottle.
I also think that if anyone is going to drink a beer after mowing the law, they should do it in private. Our witness to our kids and to the world is much more important than what we drink.

You might think drinking one beer in front of your kids is okay. The kids might decide that "Dad" drinks beer and it's okay, so I can to. When teenagers get with their friends they like to experiment and drinking becomes a game with them. Don't think your teenagers are going to stop with just one. Peer presssure is much stronger than parent pressure.

As to the original question about NA beer. If it looks like a beer and you preceive yourself as drinking a beer, then someone is going to see you drink it and spread the word. The world loves to bring us down to it's level.

 

Although I know this will be useless because the words will get twisted once again to conform to what you want to believe.

Numbers 6:3 comes to mind off the top of my head.

I will not respond any more to this subject because it is like beating a dead horse.
I know what the Bible says and what is true.

The End

 

No, you do NOT know what the Bible says.

You mention Numbers 6:3 saying that a Nazirite must abstain from alcohol for the duration of his vow.

You are apparently unaware of verse 20, ..."After that, the Nazirite may drink wine."

Hit and run posting runs against the spirit of this board. It is usually done by those who cannot support their argument.

You cannot pick and choose from the Word of God.

MR

 

If you are talking about damage at a cellular level, salt is just as "poisonous".

So he made poison for others to drink?

The meal in the Upper Room is thought to be a passover seder meal which usually uses alcoholic wine.

I know tee-totalers rationalize it as grape juice or very low in alcohol content, but unfermented grape juice is a modern invention made possible by refrigeration and according to you, one molecule of ethanol is still a poison.

And then there are analogies of wine and wineskins (Matt 9, Mark 2, Luke 5) as well as the parables of winemaker (Matt 21, Mark 12) neither of which was a negative reference to wine.

I've heard this reference before but never knew where it came from. Would you share the bible verse?

 

Bible verse for "He made marijuana"?

You've got to be kidding. Marijuana is a plant. It was originally used for rope, still is as a matter of fact. If Jesus our Creator did NOT make marijuana, could you please provide your evolutionary proof? Marijuana smoking (I suppose) began when some feller was burning the leaves after making some rope, got a whiff and WHOOOEEEE!

Most likely, (speculation) something similar happened with wine. Some guy's wine got old before he drank it and WHOOOEEE!

This is just silly. Drink booze if you want to. Justify it biblically if you want to. Lots of things are "biblically" justified. That doesn't make them so.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Well, all things were created by God, to include the infamous "wacky weed".......

But seriously, I think it is the intent rather than the actual drinking that is the problem. I personally no longer drink alcoholic beverages, but this is out of a personal conviction and a desire to glorify God in my conduct.

If one drinks to get drunk, there is a problem; but I personally don't have a problem if one prefers a glass of wine with their meal......

Once again, I think (JMO) that the intent/reason is what needs to be scrutinized.

 

Scripture clearly says that wine is a blessing from God:

However, like other blessings from God (food, money, sex, positions of authority, etc.) it can be misused and abused, and is sinful when used beyond what God intended it for.

 

I see what you mean.

I thought you were referring to a reference I've heard in the past of some who try to justify weed by saying that there is a specific reference to Jesus and weed in the Bible. I had forgotten the passage used and I thought you were referring to the same one.

 

I respect that preference which many holy men in the bible like John the Baptist and the Nazarites chose.

I also am encouraged in your obedience to the words of Paul who tells the early church in Romans 14 of how to treat brothers and sisters like myself who hold different preferences.

 

if he specifies ther is no alcohol in the beer there is nothing wrong. if he preaches against alcohol and drinks the beer with out it and openly states it then ther is nothing wrong all he is doing now is promoting NA beer. If he states it out lowed that it is NA than u have to be a comlete moron to think hes drinking alcohol. my uncle used to drink beer and when u drink somthing u aqwire a taste for it so it can be good.

 

So, when we get to Heaven, are you going to go up to the Apostle Paul and tell him that he was wrong in his advice to Timothy? </font>[/QUOTE]Nope! I will be too busy praising God for His mercy upon this poor man!! Besides that you totally glossed over my point. Read my quote again. I said it is not wise to take poison into your body for fun. Some medications ARE poison, but used properply for the TREATMENT of disease they are beneficial. Rightly divide the truth here folks.

In HIS service;
Jim </font>[/QUOTE]I did rightly divide the truth, Jim.
Take a look at your quote again, in particular:

Exactly what are you implying here?

 

BiR;
The implication should be clear enough. But I will expound for you.
Opiates are poison, but when used correctly as medication they are beneficial.
If one were to consume opiates for FUN they are doing it exclusively for the effect it gives them and because they like the effect. OK?
Now on to alcohol. Alcohol is a poison. It kills the bodies cells the moment it is consumed. At one time it was used as a medication. It still is for some things. i.e. over the counter cough medications, mouth rinse, etc. When someone takes this poison into their system for fun they are doing so for the effect and because they like it.
That, my friend, is not wise.
FYI; At one time in history, Irgot of Rye was used as a medication for pregnant women to induce labor. Irgot of Rye is the base ingredient of LSD. The LSD that is sold today on the streets is nothing like the LSD of the Sixties and Seventies. Back then, the majority of it was made in a lab on a college campus. Today it is not so. Today it is generally made slap-doodle by some wacko in a garage. Most of the time, it is diluted with Strichnine poison. Yet folks still, knowingly, take this poison into their system for fun because they like the effect.

These three examples I have just given you are identical. All three drugs have or had medicinal uses. But when their uses go beyond medicine, their use is purely for self-gratification and THAT my dear brother is not wise.

Mt 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mr 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Lu 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Evidently, God thought this principle was important enough to put it into the Bible three times.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Sex is abused by many people, but I don't see anyone arguing that we ought to give up sex because we might be a stumbling block to others.

Food is abused by many people, but I don't see anyone arguing that we ought to stop eating food because we might be a stumbling block to others. Not only do we not give up food, we continue to eat the wrong kinds (completely man-made junk food). To the guy saying that alcohol is a poison, how much hydrogentated fat do you eat in a day? It's found in candy bars, salad dressing, etc. I'm just going to call you a hypocrite now and get it over with.

Sex in marriage is a gift from God.
Food that comes from "real" plants and animals is a gift from God.
Wine and beer is a gift from God.

When you stop eating processed, adulterated, additive-filled food (anything other than a natural diet), come back and talk to me about not drinking wine.

 

Paul33;
I baaaaack!
I don't eat that junk, FYI.
And FYI;
Sex is needed for a function to continue life. You comparison does not apply.
Food is needed as a function to continue life.
Your comparison does not apply.
Now that that is out of the way, I will not react to your charge of hypocrisy with a charge of carnality.

OOPS! I already did, didn't I?

Now. Address the real issue. Sex is NOT poison. Food is not poison. Alcohol is. Do a little reasearch. I am not just blowing smoke.

While excessive fats and other things may not be good for you, the fact is that their nature is NOT poisonous.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Alcohol is also a food. Its metabolism, when within the rate at which our body can metabolize, produces energy for our cells to live.

Ethanol becomes Acetaldehyde which becomes Acetic Acid. In each step, NADH is produced which is used in the mitochondria in the last step of cellular respiration called the electron transport chain to produce ATP, the energy currency of the cell.

One drawback of this is that overuse of this pathway for energy drains the body's supply of NAD+ which backs up normal respiratory metabolism of glucose which then gets stored as fat, contributing to obesity. Hence the beer gut.

[ March 29, 2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Gold Dragon ]

 

http://www.benbest.com/health/alcohol.html


"Yet some people, myself included, feel concern about consuming a substance which causes physical & mental discoordination/disorientation. Although the effects appear to be temporary, one could easily wonder about the physiological changes being wrought on the brain. And one could wonder whether the temporary effects are really desireable -- even if pleasurable -- and whether the brain really escapes permanent harm. Because ethanol enters tissues in proportion to water content it is far more prevalent in the brain than in muscle or fat. For those who highly value their brains/minds this should be a matter of great concern. "
"Many studies of cardiovascular disease, have given mixed results: "Use of ethanol has been associated with higher risk of mortality from hypertension, hemorrhagic stroke and cardiomyopathy, but with lower risk from CAD, occlusive stoke and nonspecific cardiovascular disease." Cardiomyopathy is damaged heart muscle cells unrelated to coronary artery disease. Ethanol reacts with fatty acids to produce fatty acid ethyl esters [general molecular formula CH3(CH2)nCOOCH2CH3] which are toxic to mitochondria -- leading to heart muscle cell damage."


It appears that Gold Dragon did not do his homework. I got this from the site he posted.

Alcohol is poison which DESTROYS the body in very many ways.

It is not wise to use it.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

All my links are from Wikipedia. I never posted anything from that website.

Here is a list of Pub Med articles dealing with the effects of fatty acid ethyl esters due to alcohol on myocardial tissue. All the research concerns chronic alcoholics.

It appears I can't link to search results. Go to PubMed and enter "ethanol fatty acid ethyl esters myocardial" into the search criteria.

 

Yes, alcohol can do damage on a cellular level. So can salt, sugar, etc. Caffeine (tea, coffee, sodas, some chocolate, etc.) is an alkaloid, like nicotine and cocaine. Eating hot Mexican or Indian food can do cellular damage to your tongue. Staying up for 20+ hours affects your judgement. Very cold days and very hot days can do damage to your skin, as can UV rays from the sun. Car mechanics are in continuous contact with things like battery acid and carbon monoxide. Many vaccinations are injections of small amounts of "poison" to get our systems to build up their immunitity to such poisons.

Even exercise does damage on a cellular level. That ache in your muscles after a work out is due to small tears in the tissue, that will later heal stronger than they were.

The fact of "cellular damage" does not mean something is inherently wrong, let alone sinful.

 

The Bible says in 1 Timothy 5:23, "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

 

Jim,

Do you eat candy bars of any kind? What kind do you eat?

Do you drink soda (pop)of any kind? What kind do you drink? Diet? Regular?

I'm really interested.

Do you drink pasteurized, homogenized milk from dairy cows?

Do you eat anything with food coloring?

Do you eat anything with preservatives?

Do you eat only organic food without pesticides, herbicides, antibiotics, or growth hormones?

If you say "yes" to any of these questions you are eating "poison."

Let me know.