Non Alcoholic Beer

Don't take 50 proof Nyquol nor any medicine.
Don't buy gas for your car because if you buy it you are supporting Muslim countries.
Don't live in areas where the Amish live because they grow grapes in their backyard.

Don't live in the south. The fact is that I saw more beer and wine in the homes of Baptists when I pastored in the south but seldom on the west coast where I lived most of my life even in areas where wine was produced.

 

"Abstain from all appearance of evil" (KJV) doesn't mean what you think it means.

The Greek literally says, Abstain from every form of evil. In other words, don't do evil of any kind.

This verse has nothing to do with "appearance."

A good modern translation doesn't confuse the reader with such an archaic translation.

NIV = "Avoid every kind of evil."

Just one more reason why we should stop using the KJV. It's no longer accurate.

 

Although I still use an archaic translation, I could have told you to "Avoid every kind of evil.". As for the 'appearance of evil' from the KJV, I still have to go with it being the idea of seperation. If a person drinks, or wears cut-offs, or has a tattoo, and they are still hanging around with their 'old' crowd, or the crowd that is no where near being a Christian, then there is an appearance of evil. I always find it interesting that when some get saved, and starts hanging around with the saved bunch, they still have a sort of 'rebel' attitude instead of becoming an integral part of the fellowship of those believers. I recall a young man getting saved during the 70s, still keeping his long hair, and coming barefoot to church. He said he was trying to reach those that were still the way he use to be. Eventually, he cut his hair, put on shoes, and went off to Bible College and became a preacher. Personally, when I got saved, I did a 180, but each must work out their own way personally.

Of course, they all should get close enough to the old crowd long enough to give their testimony and to present the plan of salvation.

 

That Jesus fellow sure did a lot of drinking and eating with fellows that sound a lot like this 'old' crowd you are describing.

I would hope you maintain friendships with your 'old' crowd for longer than that. I didn't realize Christianity was about only keeping friends who agree with you and abandoning everyone else. Maybe you will have less in common with your 'old crowd' after becoming a Christian and not enjoy activities the same way. But definitely do not throw away those relationships because they don't convert the same time you do.

 

Nope, Jesus did not do a lot of drinking and eating with fellows that were in the 'old' crowd. The Pharisees accused him of such, but it was not true. The account that we have of him in his ministry, namely the gospels and fairly limited, had him preaching a lot more than eating and drinking with the 'old' crowd. As a matter of fact, there is more detail on his friendships with his disciples. We have to be careful in adopting an image of a 'modern-day' Jesus, that he was just another one of the good ol' boys. He was God. Hopefully, a person will present the gospel to that old crowd, and if necessary, dust the soles of their feet after running, not walking, in the other direction. We do our job, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. We do not hang around with the world in hopes of them catching a little bit of Jesus from us.

 

So the gospel narrators are lying here?

and in Matthew 9:10, Luke 5:29, Luke 19:5?

Wow, I guess Jesus really didn't mean it when that is exactly what he wanted us to do.

 

I am not going to whip the verses showing Jesus' fellowship with his disciples. It would take pages and pages. You presented the supposition "That Jesus fellow sure did a lot of drinking and eating with fellows that sound a lot like this 'old' crowd you are describing" and then you back up your statment with Mark 2:15. Did that Jesus fellow really do a lot of drinking and eating with the fellows. If that is what you get out of 2nd Chapter of Mark, or later in your reply--from the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus' prayer in the Garden, that's fine. Just let me ask one question--How effective has your ministry been in reaching those in the 'old' crowd? If it is where God has placed you, and it is being effective, then I pray more power to you.

 

I'm confused, is your disagreement with the phrase "a lot"? Because if it is I can take that out of the sentence and make the same point.

That Jesus fellow sure drank and ate with fellows that sound a lot like this 'old' crowd you are describing.

Fair enough. Having grown up in a Christian home and moving around through much of my childhood, I never really had an 'old' crowd. But the few non-Christian friendships I have had, I value and cherish and I hope I have made an impact in. Some have come to Christ, not necessarily through any direct "evanglism" from me but often through others reaping what I hope were seeds I helped to plant. Admittedly this is an area I need improvement in.

 

So you better quit buying gas for your car because you are supporting Muslims if you do. Talk about supporting evil.

 

I think much of separation today is an easy out for many because they are afraid to share their faith. If you don't believe me, just take some of those who make such claims and ask them to go share their faith with you and see how many you get.

 

You can go with the idea of separation, you just can't support it with the above mentioned verse.

Jesus spent time with lost sinners and so should we. Now the problem is we don't like being around many of these so called lost sinners.

 

So you better quit buying gas for your car because you are supporting Muslims if you do. Talk about supporting evil. </font>[/QUOTE]gb, whats that got to do with the price of tea in china?

I did not have any old muslim friends. I did have a Jewish buddy while in the army, but we were all in the same boat.

 

Hey, gb! If I'm ever going to be in Iowa, I'll PM you, and if I'm close enough, I"ll go soul-winning with ya.

 

The only time that I'm not with lost sinners is when I am home with my family, or at certain church functions (i.e., men's prayer meeting, soul-winning, etc.) Funny, they don't get in line for those functions. When I am with them, I share the gospel. My point was the fellowship aspect. If they want to go church with me, go soul-winning with me, go to men's prayer meeting with me, then I am more than willing to fellowship with them. My life now is dedicated to Jesus (of course, it can be a lot closer walk, but I'm working on it), and really do not have time to be part of the 'old' crowd.

 

I detest alcohol and the effects that it has on society and the unnecessary traffic deaths of innocent people. This post is not about alcohol but Non Alcoholic beer.
I have neve drank beer alcoholic or non alcoholic. If you think about it it is water barely and other things that makes up horse urine. leave mine in the horse.
With that said , though I do not drink wine \I occasionally drink non alcoholic wine. (Maybe it is not wine if it is not alcoholic.) I love the taste of Cold duck and catapa grape juice and sparkling grape juice. It is in a similar bottle and it is fruit of the vine.
If doing this caused a brother or sister to stumble I would not do this.
I wish every beer drinker would change to non alcoholic. Maybe there would be people alive.

 

I will get back to this statement later.

You are apparently a student in the doctrine of implied instruction. A point worth noting is that none of the Passages you quote in this response directly address alcohol, opiates, or anything with respect to the argument you are making. Interesting that the basis of your argument here references Scriptural Passages that do not specifically address the subject of alcohol, despite the fact that alcohol is discussed in the Bible in several places.

You may think that the "implication" is "clear enough," and yet the "implication" is not in the Scripture you offer.

Perhaps you can try again, showing us with Passages that deal directly with this subject.

Regards,
BiR

 

BiR;
If "Deny himself is not clear enough for you then you are hopeless.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

*note: anytime I say "you", it is not directed at "you the original poster" but to "you the Christian community"*

Ever see the movie Saved? It portrays those Christians who try and avoid the sinners. In fact, in the movie, anyone who falls into certain sins is sent to this place called "Mercy House" so that the school and the kids parents dont have to deal with their sin. How are we supposed to reach lost people if we set them aside and avoid them?

I'm not advocating that we continue in sin in the name of reaching people...or sinning to change people.

Christianity has become more about religion and less about having fellowship with Christ. We try and take everyone we "convert" and make them fit into this neat little box and say, "Now, you're saved so you need to change who you are and be the way we are. Don't be yourself, but be like us."

Jesus didn't die to make us better than everyone else or to put us into a box or change us into someone that we are not. Jesus died to free us from sin.

I am 21 years old and I am out there in the culture, and the last thing they wanna see is some Christian trying to meet their quota of people they have saved for the week. They wanna meet people and see Christians who are serious and real. They want something that they can think about and grasp. And they seek, if anything, freedom from what culture is trying to mold them into.

Having a beer with someone and sharing the gospel is no more sinful than going to a buffet to share the gospel. Going to a bar may make people think you're an alcoholic and going to a buffet may make people think you overeat. Which is more important: You're reputation or following God's command to reach ALL types of people with the gospel?

 

Puritan;
"Which is more important: You're reputation or following God's command to reach ALL types of people with the gospel? "
__________________________________________________

Your question is invalid and untenable.

Without a "reputation" which is above reproach you will not get far with "all types of people".

You doubt that? All you need to do is to look at the current News casts. It is not the "spotless" who are making news these days. It is the "vile and sinful". All kinds of "evil doers" are all over the news. Once a man's reputation is besmeared he has no credibility to speak authoritatively on anything but gutter smut.

You expect a man who is a thief to be able to speak to you about honesty?
You expect a man who is an adulterer to be able to speak about fidelity?

Why do you think it is that Paul was so clear about the character requirements for pastors/deacons?

Yes, Jesus DID die to make us better than everyone else. Everyone else is going to burn in hell. We are not. That, my friend, is MUCH better.

But you are right in one thing. He did NOT die to make us hypocrites who flaunt a "holier than thou" attitude. I think perhaps this is what you really mean. Maybe I am wrong though.

I am 46 and have been "out there in the culture" for twice your age. So what? I have spent 2 1/2 years in prison also. I can tell you that the meanest sinners are not in prison. They are in many churches. They are the ones who will tell you that you can be just like your lost friends so long as you "share" the gospel with them. This is plain idiocy. My friends in prison will tell you they have more respect for the man who seperates from that lifestyle than the man who tries to be with them and with churchgoers at the same time. They have much more respect for the man who will stand against compromise than one who will soft shoe it. And by the way; They laugh at a fellow who uses NA beer because he is the biggest hypocrite of all. He is the one who wants to have his cake and eat it too. You talk about getting and staying "real"? That's real life my friend.

Food for thought my young friend. Food for thought.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Your character is more important than your reputation because your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think of you.

Give me a bar full of people to discuss Christ rather than some disobedient pew sitters. The only people Jesus condemned were the religious disobedient.

There has been a few times in a community near where I once lived that the only place they met was at a pool hall/bar. More than once I met the people there to go on over to the place to do a funeral in that community. You would be amazed at the discussion I had as a pastor in that bar those times.