Non Alcoholic Beer

You are right. It is only the sick who need a doctor. The self righteous just don't realize how they are already in the emergency room.

I can remember one of the deacons in a church I once pastored when I spoke on gossip. After the service he came running at me in such a way that I thought he was going to hit me. Later he waited for me after he thought everyone left and proceeded to argue with me. Fortunately someone else showed up at the perfect time.

 

Hopeless, indeed.
I do not subscribe to the doctrine of implied instruction, especially when there are several Passages that specifically deal with this topic.

I couldn't help but notice that you still didn't offer any Scripture to support your contention, other than a reiteration of what you have already said.

Regards,

BiR

 

Getting back to the OP, and keeping in the same vein as the "appearance of evil" or "Avoid any evil", if the Pastor is bringing glory to God, and is very effective in his calling as Pastor, then would we be hard-pressed to question the legitimacy of the Pastor's conviction? The same goes for the drinkers and non-drinkers that have posted. If it is working for you, then can we question each other's convictions? On the other hand....well, you get the 'on the other hand' part. If you are not being that effective, whether a drinker of a teetotaler, then maybe some more searching is in order.

 

I apologize for the attitude in my post. I think I just read your post wrong. I see what you're saying, and I am totally with you. I read what you said and took it that you were saying that we were supposed to act like we are holier than everyone else better in a prideful sense.

Your assertion about my comments was correct.

 

You know what guys, I think we need to all go down to the pub, grab a few beers, and have an honest to goodness discussion.

 

Not until we are finished with this dead horse.

 

Let's bring our deacons with us.

 

I would like to see how some translate Luke 7:33-34 when Jesus said "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say 'He has a demon'. The SON OF MAN came EATING and DRINKING, and you say 'Here is a glutton and a DRUNKARD, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners"."

How could Jesus be called a 'drunkard' (He obviously wasn't) if he didn't drink? It is clear from this passage that John the Baptist fasted and abstained from drinking, but Jesus did drink.

It would be like me saying "when my father was younger he rode Harley's and smoked cigarettes, and you called him a Hell's Angel. I on the other hand never rode or smoked and you call me a loser." One statement supports the other.

As far as the wedding at Cana and turning the water into wine, I've heard some say that Jesus would never had made alcoholic wine because it would have contributed to their drunkeness. Didn't Jesus give the multitudes plenty of food from the 5 loaves and 2 fish, so much that there was a lot left over? Did nobody over eat in those days? Did Jesus contribute to their "gluttony"?

 

There you go, webdog. Kicking the dead horse. Was Jesus a Drunkard and Glutton? What did the Pharisees see Jesus eating and drinking? Is there a remote possibility that they could have been wrong in their observations? What is the term one of the other posters used--oh, now I remember--"implied instructions", or something like that.

 

Willie, Jesus said "... The Son of Man came eating and drinking...". Jesus was talking about Himself. This verse says nothing of the Pharisees' observations, it was Christ saying it. Go back and read it yourself.

 

Well then, why didn't Jesus abstain from all appearance of evil!!!!!

Using that verse the way you separatists use it makes Jesus a "sinner"!!!!

That's right. He didn't abstain from all appearance of evil and gave the pharisees grounds to accuse him of being a drunkard. He went to a wedding where wine was being served and didn't separate from that environment.

He multiplied food and contributed to the glutony of some.

What a sinner!

You see how rediculous your claims are.

Drinking is not a sin. Jesus drank wine and made wine. He went to parties. He ate with sinners and publicans, the worst of Jewish society.

You separatists who want everyone to "abstain from all appearance of evil" don't know what you are talking about. The Bible says, avoid every kind of evil. It didn't say, separate from sinners or be worried about "appearing" like we are sinning.

If you would stop making "alcohol" a sin, we could all get on with reachng this world for Christ without all of these unnecessary hurdles that keep us from being authentic as we reach out to the lost.

Thank God Jesus drank wine, made wine, and drank it in the company of sinners.

 

While I'm on your side Paul33, let us humbly obey Paul's words about how to treat our weaker brethren and build each other up with scripture.

 

Yeah! And while we'er at it let's have a couple of joints too!


In HIS service;
Jim

 

Why would anyone want to drink non-alcoholic beers when there is nothing wrong with drinking beer that contains alcohol?

 

From the gist of some posts, it is not a sin-

To drink a beer or two
To smoke a cigarette or two
To smoke a joint or two (forget about being unlawful for a second)
To smoke a cigar only while golfing
To drink a cup of coffee or two
To eat a bag or two of fried pork rinds

Everything is acceptable if done in moderation.

I believe that scientific studies have shown that there are even health benefits in the moderate use of some of the above items.

Although not sinful, is it profitable for me to abstain from any of the above, if I believe I am doing it to glorify God? Not to use it to judge others, or to beat my brethern over the head (especially my Lutheran golfing buddies), but simply to seek a closer walk with God. For sake of debate, let's call it a permanent fast on these items. Although God does not command that we abstain from any of the above (although some do disagree with this assertion), will he bless anyone's decision to abstain from these items?

 

Gold Dragon,

I appreciate the point that you are making for my benefit. Thanks.

However, on this forum, I don't think that I'm conversing with the "weaker" brother.

In real life, I don't buy wine where I might be a stumbling block to others. I don't drink in public where I do ministry. Why? Because I'm hiding it. No. I teach my people that the use of alcohol is not in and of itself sinful. Well, then why? For just the reason you cite. I don't want to be a stumbling block.

Do I drink wine at home. Yes. Do I drink wine in the town I serve as minister. No. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so.

If I lived in France I wouldn't worry about it. But I don't live in France!

 

Jim and Willie,

The health benefits of wine are well known! Drink it for the health of it.

Unless your an alcoholic, then stay away from it.

 

You with your "emphasis" so very pointedly say that Jesus was "evil". Hopefully many of us may be at His table when He again makes and drinks the best of wines, while you watch from afar.

 

Preach it!

If we could be examples of this to our people without getting fired, then maybe they could learn to fight against the things that are truly evil and enjoy the things that God has blessed us with!