SN, I know I do. Even if it's a poster I agree with theologically, I avoid reading their long posts. If you can't say it in one or two paragraphs it's best left unsaid IMHO.
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- Thread starter Luke2427
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SN, I know I do. Even if it's a poster I agree with theologically, I avoid reading their long posts. If you can't say it in one or two paragraphs it's best left unsaid IMHO.
:laugh: Well, is she wrong?
Well, how gracious of you :laugh:
Mine comes from my Italian mother..... "You go to your church & I will go to mine!"
side-note: you would not ever want to argue that point with anyone on that side of the family:smilewinkgrin:
If your view is correct, then no man can KNOW he is saved, yet the scriptures clearly teach man can know for a certainty he is saved.
1 Jhn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
If your view was correct (it isn't) then no man could know for a certainty he is saved, the best he could do is hope he is saved.
That is not what scriptures teach, the scriptures teach that any man who has believed on Jesus can absolutely KNOW he is saved.
Again, the reason those in Matthew 7 are not saved is shown, these persons were trusting that they were saved because they claimed Jesus as their "Lord" and boasted of their obedience and good works. This is nothing but Lordship Salvation plain and simple. The Pharisee was guilty of the same thing, he sincerely believed in God, he was no atheist, but he depended or trusted on his own righteousness and good works.
The publican demonstrated true saving faith, he did not boast of any goodness or good works, but confessed he was a sinner and cast himself completely on God's mercy, depending only on God and his goodness to be saved. And Jesus said this man went down to his house justified.
When God makes a promise, he keeps it, anyone who believes on Jesus and trusts him alone to save them from their sins is absolutely and certainly saved.
Inspector Javert
Active Member
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saturneptune
New Member
God is my refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. The Holy Spirit in me testifies I am a child of the Living God. The inner workings of the Lord that got me here are up to Him. I am charged with telling others about the glorious Gospel to the best of my ability.
InsJ said:
Reminds me of Cool Hand Luke when the warden beat Luke over the head with a club and Luke fell into the ditch. All the other inmates gaped at the warden in total awe of his cruelty.
The warden saw their looks and said, "You don't understand, I'm just tryin' to help ya, I'm just tryin' to help ya get your minds right".
Luke stands up rubbing his head and says, "I wish you didn't care so much about me boss." :laugh:
Paul taught we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith. You think he got it wrong, we know because we professed? Not how scripture reads.
Again we know we are saved by our changed life, we see the fruit of the Spirit.
Your argument carries the seeds of its own defeat, if some professed the name of Jesus and were not saved, then salvation is not automatic by professing, but rather depends on God crediting that faith as righteousness. If He does not, no salvation.
God keeps His promise, we just disagree on what is promised, automatic salvation as determined by man believing the right things in the right way, or by God having mercy upon whom He has mercy. You view makes salvation depend on the man that will....
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Simply professing you believe in God is not the same as trusting Jesus for salvation. Those in Matthew 7 were not atheists, they believed Jesus was Lord, but they trusted in their works to save them, it is shown in the text, they boasted of their works.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
The reason they are not saved is shown, they trusted that they called Jesus "Lord, Lord", they trusted they had prophesied in his name, cast out devils in his name, and done many wonderful WORKS in his name. This is nothing but Lordship salvation.
The Pharisee was exactly the same;
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
The Pharisee was no atheist, he truly believed in God, but he trusted in his own righteous works to save him. He boasted he was not a sinner as other men are, and he boasted of his religious works.
The publican made no such claims, he simply confessed he was a sinner and cast himself completely on God's mercy.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
There is a difference in simply believing there is a God and trusting Jesus to save you. The devils believe and tremble. They cannot trust Jesus because there is no promise to them.
To be saved you must believe Jesus's specific promise to save you if you trust him, and him alone to save you. Anyone who does this can know for an absolute certainty they are saved.
1 Jhn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Hi Winman, I see you simply repeated your argument for automatic salvation if you believe in the right way all the right things. Thus you make salvation depend on the man that wills.
But you agree that God determines whether the profession meets his standard for giving mercy. And if it does not, no salvation, i.e. Matthew 7.
Thus you agree that if God credits your faith as righteousness, He saves you.
But you agree that God determines whether the profession meets his standard for giving mercy. And if it does not, no salvation, i.e. Matthew 7.
Thus you agree that if God credits your faith as righteousness, He saves you.
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I certainly agree that it is God who decides who is saved, that is shown in the scripture I quoted. Those who trusted in their works were not saved, those who trusted in Jesus alone to save them were.
This is exactly what Paul says in Romans 10:
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Paul's fellow countrymen believed in God, they were not atheists, Paul said they had a zeal of God, "but not according to knowledge".
The trouble was that they were trying to earn salvation by keeping the law, they were trusting in their own righteousness instead of trusting completely on Jesus and the work he did to save them.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Here Paul explains why the Gentiles are saved, because they simply trusted on Jesus to save them by faith. The Jews were not saved because they tried to merit salvation by their works.
And yes, what I am describing is often called "easy believism", that if you sincerely trust Jesus to save you he will. You are saved right then and there, you do not have to "persevere" to the end to be saved.
1 Jhn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
If your view is correct (it isn't) then no man could say with a certainty that NOW he is a son of God, but that is exactly what John taught.
You are correct though, we are told to examine ourselves to see whether we are in the faith, that is, we should make sure we are trusting on Jesus alone to save us, and not depending on our works, church membership, being born into a Christian family, or any other reason to be saved.
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Inspector Javert
Active Member
I stirred up a bee-hive with my last post, so I'll take this one statement and one poster at a time:
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saturneptune
New Member
God is not a love sick fool. He is Creator, Savior, and makes the rules. I will ask what another poster did, how much time have you spent studying the sovereignty of God?
That low representation of God sickens me. Who would post it?
"God is RECKLESS, FOOLISH, IMPRUDENT and BLIND . . was a "love-sick" fool. That was HIS decision, not mine. I was the OBJECT of his "love-sick" tom-foolery"
No place for any such vile post on a Christian forum. That is so sad.
"God is RECKLESS, FOOLISH, IMPRUDENT and BLIND . . was a "love-sick" fool. That was HIS decision, not mine. I was the OBJECT of his "love-sick" tom-foolery"
No place for any such vile post on a Christian forum. That is so sad.
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