None of us are perfect, right?

[Christos doulos]

Which is the clear and biblical position.

My friend. I beg to differ :laugh:

 

[MB]

Bear with me here.


All of us have varying knowledge of the scriptures. Myself, I wish I had the knowledge that a lot of you seem to possess.

With that said, none of us can know with 100% certainty that the way we interpret the scriptures is 100% correct, right?

I mean, just read some threads here: Multiple people who appear to have great knowledge of the word, will show great proof using the scriptures as support, but be at odds with someone doing the same thing.

So how can we know when we are wrong?

The only thing to remember is in order to have a good understanding of scripture is to be God dependent.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
MB

 

[Don]

Glad I was wrong about the number of responses....

 

[Iconoclast]

Which is the clear and biblical position.

not quite...you have the cart before the horse

 

[quantumfaith]

Bobby,

A debate forum tends to attract those who at least appear to be very 'sure of themselves' (arrogant). I'm including myself in that because I realize the written word in the midst of a debate carries a tone of absolute certainty.

When you read or hear SOME of the more respected scholars on both sides of this debate however, the tone is often much less dogmatic and more humble. For example, I remember reading and listening to RC Sproul back when I was a Calvinist and thinking how much I respected his honesty and objectivity in dealing with very difficult passages. He often admitted self doubt and uncertainty about his positions and he seemed to tread very carefully into speculation. He admitted that he 'could be wrong about this' but went on to explain his opinion with great humility.

On this debate forum, I guess that is seen as a weakness that would be attacked mercilessly, which is unfortunate.

So, to answer your question, we don't really know if we are completely right on every controversial point of doctrine. I'd be very leery of anyone who claimed otherwise. However, we CAN and SHOULD fully vet the scriptures and possible interpretations so as to make the most educated decisions about what we believe and teach on these very important issues.

I'd also be very leery of any 'scholar' who wasn't willing or able to correctly explain the other possible interpretations of a particular passage. If they say, "This is what that verse means..." When they are done giving their view, ask them, "Are there other scholarly interpretations of this text out there?" And see what he says. If he doesn't know them or can't explain them correctly then he has possibly made a uninformed decision about what he believes.

Amen!!!!

 

[quantumfaith]

My view is that the biblical teaching of predestination is not about God preselecting certain individuals. It is about God predetermining to adopt and conform WHOSOEVER believes, whether they are Jew or Gentile.

For example, a pilot may predetermine his destination without necessarily determining what individuals will board his plane. Likewise, Paul may be expressing that God predetermined the destination of those who are 'IN CHRIST.' How they enter Christ through faith (whether by irresistible means, as Calvinists believe, or not) isn't even revealed in those passages.

So, I think you can simply present those two views in a fair way and allow the people to grapple with the implications of each view. In MY experience most reject the Calvinistic conclusions when both views are presented side by side, but when ONLY the Calvinistic view is presented some accept it by default and those who don't are left confused and conflicted.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Don]

...seems this thread has turned into an example of the OP....

 

[Scarlett O.]

Bear with me here.

No problem.

With that said, none of us can know with 100% certainty that the way we interpret the scriptures is 100% correct, right? So how can we know when we are wrong?

Keep this in mind. Peter, James, and Paul and others had deep theological disagreements. And they all had encountered Jesus Christ, personally!! :laugh: They tried to resolve them and did somewhat, but never did fully and completely agree, or at least to me it doesn't appear that Peter and James were 100% steadfast in some issues involving the place of the Law in the Christian walk.

And Paul, a former Pharisee who had been saved, was in disagreement with a whole group of former Pharisees who had been saved over similar matters.

The Bible says that "discussions" they all had were "no small disagreement" - meaning that there were voices raised and fussing.

So - it stands to reason that 2000 years later - generations removed from Christ's human walk on this planet - that there will be theological disagreements.

As far how do we KNOW if we are wrong?

• Well, we have to admit that we DON'T know everything. And we have to be open-minded to others and sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes at least hear them out and consider what they say compared to what the scriptures say.
• We have to listen to the Holy Spirit.
• We have to do four things with the Bible. Read, meditate on it, study it, and memorize portions of it. All four are uniquely expressin IN the Bible as to how to utilize the Bible. All four have a place in the Christian walk.
• We have to pray for discernment and listen to the Lord and accept His chastisements.
• We MUST, MUST forgo tradition and man-made teachings as inspiration.
• And, we need allow the scripture to interpret scripture.

And you did realize that you would get differing opinions on this, didn't you? :laugh: :flower:

 

[Amy.G]

Scarlett, your post made me think that maybe God wants us to learn from one another. Hmmm......

 

[Scarlett O.]

Scarlett, your post made me think that maybe God wants us to learn from one another. Hmmm......

It would appear so....:laugh: :flower:

 

[Tom Butler]

Go with what you know, until you know differently.

I have changed my views in some areas over the years. Not in the basic Baptist doctrines so much, but in my eschatology and ecclesiology.

I, as you, was a dispensationalist, partly because when I was first exposed to the doctrine of the end times, that was all I was taught. I was a Hal Lindsey fan. My experience paralleled yours--it sort of unraveled under challenge.

I have also re-evaluated how we as Baptists call men and women to repentance and faith, particularly the methodology of the altar call.

I was moved to even re-examine the very language we use in describing how people come to repentance and faith.

It is not fun. In fact, it is disconcerting to come to the point where you no longer believe a view you thought was settled.

Even today, as a septuagenarian, there are some areas where I can only say "this is where I am today. I may not be there tomorrow."

 

[Iconoclast]

I have changed my views in some areas over the years. Not in the basic Baptist doctrines so much, but in my eschatology and ecclesiology.

I, as you, was a dispensationalist, partly because when I was first exposed to the doctrine of the end times, that was all I was taught. I was a Hal Lindsey fan. My experience paralleled yours--it sort of unraveled under challenge.

I have also re-evaluated how we as Baptists call men and women to repentance and faith, particularly the methodology of the altar call.

I was moved to even re-examine the very language we use in describing how people come to repentance and faith.

It is not fun. In fact, it is disconcerting to come to the point where you no longer believe a view you thought was settled.

Even today, as a septuagenarian, there are some areas where I can only say "this is where I am today. I may not be there tomorrow."

Yes....exactly right my brother! It is very difficult.....
On end times...I was taught the premill was it...all others were on the edge of apostasy:laugh:
The Lord used a Lutheran brother to begin to challenge me at a bible study.
I would really go at Him demanding a strictly literal view of everything:laugh:

I began to study Hebrews at that time,and discovered the puritans,Owen ,Edwards,etc... it rocked my end times view...

On the grace of God I have never drifted ...if anything...seeing the other views continues to let me know the certainty of the DoG.

I am still learning.....constantly seeking to re-evaluate many things now
1] covenants.....one covenant or two? Last week in Oregon, I went to Monergisms bookstore and picked up Greg Nichols new book on RB Covenant theology...http://www.monergismbooks.com/Coven...ic-Perspective-on-Gods-Covenants-p-20205.html

2] church...is there really a visible and invisible church[biblically] theologically they say there is...I am not as certain

3] personal sanctification issues....spiritual mindedness....redeeming the time, godly service....responsibilites to members of the church,

4] still learning in Hebrews....it speaks so much of our Lord.

 

[DaChaser1]

Bear with me here.


All of us have varying knowledge of the scriptures. Myself, I wish I had the knowledge that a lot of you seem to possess.

With that said, none of us can know with 100% certainty that the way we interpret the scriptures is 100% correct, right?

I mean, just read some threads here: Multiple people who appear to have great knowledge of the word, will show great proof using the scriptures as support, but be at odds with someone doing the same thing.

So how can we know when we are wrong?

Believe that a good answer to this would be to seperate christian doctrines into the cire essentials, those which ALL of us MUST adhere to...

Such as the Bible/Christ death/cross/sin/nature God/second coming /baptism etc

We MUST adhere and agree on those core to christianity doctrines but go to secondary and can freely disagree on just HOW it happens!

Must hold to salvation grcae/faith alone can disagree cal/Arm
Must hold to second coming Disagree timing aspects/Dispy Covt etc!
must agree water baptism Disagree Modes

Some of those secondary understandings make us baptist or not!

than are secondaru issues such as timing of coming/modes of baptism etc!

 

[gb93433]

Bear with me here.


All of us have varying knowledge of the scriptures. Myself, I wish I had the knowledge that a lot of you seem to possess.

With that said, none of us can know with 100% certainty that the way we interpret the scriptures is 100% correct, right?

I mean, just read some threads here: Multiple people who appear to have great knowledge of the word, will show great proof using the scriptures as support, but be at odds with someone doing the same thing.

So how can we know when we are wrong?

James 1:22 is a good starter, "But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves."

Apparent knowledge does not equate with knowing God. I find those who know God have more knowledge than those who only know about God. I am convinced that the average person in church knows God mostly by what others say and knows little about God because he does not read and study his Bible. For example we would not see Mormons coming from Christian denominations if the people knew their Bible.