Not all Calvinists are the same

[Rob_BW]

I was trying to be a good forum member, and not start a thread for something that's been covered already.

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you believe we all need to have thicker skin? Maybe it should be applied here as well. Anyway, I have seen only a few cals who seemed to display an attitude other than what Steaver mentioned. Those are Ann, Tom Butler, robustheologian (has his moments) and you, but then with regards to you it has only been recently. By your own admission you had previously been much like the others. The problem is with the great number of cals that frequent this board. If you want to nit pick and play the "fine" card then there is certainly nothing I can do about that but it just seems to me that in doing so you are looking for an opportunity to be offended.

You have offered your thoughts here RM and they are what they are.....you mention 4 people who you find to your liking.
Speaking for myself......you do not like when you are answered directly so rather then respond in kind you seek to diminish those who respond to you directly as if that makes up for your lack of a biblical response.
You think we are wrong???? Show it biblically if you believe you can. If you agree in part ,then show where you agree and where you do not. That is not too much to ask is it?

 

[Iconoclast]

I was trying to be a good forum member, and not start a thread for something that's been covered already.

Rob
Threads get repeated and reworded each day. If something is on your mind .....go for it!

 

[robustheologian]

Your post does not take into account the idea that indeed the Calvinists could in fact be right. Where would that leave you RM? I would suggest it leaves you set up to be a critic of the Truth of God.
Do you think Calvinists do not think they are right?
So then they would be posting just to be contentious?
If someone comes in as they do from time to time and deny the trinity....should we make believe we are unsure of the teaching so we do not "come across" as arrogant? Or should we give biblical teaching on the trinity?
Further more....if every Christian offers verses....are you going to then say they are ganging up on the person?

The crazy thing is the Arminians on this board (of course not all of them... I won't wrongly generalize) are guilty of the same complaints they are lodging. We're accused of being arrogant in our position while they are being arrogant in their position. I won't call any names but both camps know who I'm referring to. Check the last few theological discussions for yourself. Can both sides show more grace...of course. But there needs to be some plank removal before some sawdust inspection (Matt. 7:3-5).

 

[Iconoclast]

The crazy thing is the Arminians on this board (of course not all of them... I won't wrongly generalize) are guilty of the same complaints they are lodging. We're accused of being arrogant in our position while they are being arrogant in their position. I won't call any names but both campus know who I'm referring to. Check the last few theological discussions for yourself. Can both campus show more grace...of course. But there needs to be some plank removal before some sawdust inspection (Matt. 7:3-5).

Rt

We all could do better in our interactions but I am in total agreement with the truth you just posted.
No one posts what they believe is error. Why would any reasonable person do so?
I for one do not mind some of the emotion or heat being generated even when I am on the side being attacked because it reveals much about the opposition.
Is it bible based, or personal. Is it sicere, or agenda driven.

 

[Yeshua1]

The crazy thing is the Arminians on this board (of course not all of them... I won't wrongly generalize) are guilty of the same complaints they are lodging. We're accused of being arrogant in our position while they are being arrogant in their position. I won't call any names but both camps know who I'm referring to. Check the last few theological discussions for yourself. Can both sides show more grace...of course. But there needs to be some plank removal before some sawdust inspection (Matt. 7:3-5).

well, would say to the posting itself, that there are what I would call calvinists like myself, who maintain the 5 points of the doctrines of grace, and yet there are also reformed calvinists, who would add to that the creeds/confessions, and the entire system of proper calvinism!

 

[Rippon]

well, would say to the posting itself, that there are what I would call calvinists like myself, who maintain the 5 points of the doctrines of grace, and yet there are also reformed calvinists, who would add to that the creeds/confessions, and the entire system of proper calvinism!

The 5 points are a significant truncation of the Canons of Dort --to say the least. But even the Canons of Dort do not summarize Calvinism. A confession of Faith such as the 1689 or Westminister Confession of Faith try to make a broader sweep of many (not all) doctrines of the Bible. And as I demonstrated in a thread long ago --even Christians who do not call themselves Calvinists, agree with those two Confessions of Faith 75% of the time at minimum.

 

[Internet Theologian]

You have offered your thoughts here RM and they are what they are.....you mention 4 people who you find to your liking.
Speaking for myself......you do not like when you are answered directly so rather then respond in kind you seek to diminish those who respond to you directly as if that makes up for your lack of a biblical response.
You think we are wrong???? Show it biblically if you believe you can. If you agree in part ,then show where you agree and where you do not. That is not too much to ask is it?

RM is the epitome of representing what anti-cals behave like.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I didn't see the thread, as the Rev is on my ignore list. . .


I didn't see see it because RM is on my ignore list since he reverted to calling me names, so again, the irony and hypocrisy is thick enough to cut with a knife.

strike-throughs mine

On mine as well. It didn't take long to find out he's a factious man, Titus 3:8ff.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Here's what I see frm Calvinist, and I would say I have seen it from each one here on this board.

Wonderful! There should be ample evidence so provide the evidence! Don't skip this part, you've accused now give the evidence for each of us.

Calvinist are convinced they have received special Divine revelation that Calvinism is the gospel.

Awaiting the evidence. You've stated 'each one here' so it must be available.

They believe "God opened my eyes" or something to that effect.

When has a Calvinist on here claimed God opened your eyes, or perhaps you've misspoken? That said does not Scripture claim this; Matthew 11:25ff; Ephesians 1:18; Acts 26:18; 2 Cor. 4:6? It most certainly does. Yes, we believe. God opened our eyes (or the eyes of our heart) Acts 16:14. He does this in all of His elect.

To hear them speak they talk as one talks when they are born-again.

Yes and Amen!!!! Is this a problem for you?

Thus, there is no debate, no true consideration from a Calvinist that they could be wrong.

I'm certain this Calvinist has done so, having been on both sides. Perhaps you should discontinue concern for Calvinists, considering that they could be wrong, and take some time off yourself and do the same? An honest evaluation may lead you to plains of truth you've formerly ridiculed.

Therefore they are only here to indoctrinate. Calvinism is not just a theology for them. It truly is the very gospel to them.

Yes, we are here to teach Biblical truth. Biblical truth is for the sheep, not goats and this Biblical truth is the Gospel.

 

[tyndale1946]

I have realized that some people can't debate theology without getting personal. I find it's usually a result of poor debating skills or poor theology.

I went on that link that was given explaining different Calvinist and now I'm more confused when I came out, then when I went in... There was another link within this on where someone else had a chart that said... That in Hyper-Calvinism God is the author of sin!... Where is that in the bible?... I didn't know there were so many factions of Calvinist!... Brother Glen

 

[steaver]

Wonderful! There should be ample evidence so provide the evidence! Don't skip this part, you've accused now give the evidence for each of us.

Well, evidence for yourself came pretty easily. Found it right here in this very post...

To hear them speak they talk as one talks when they are born-again.

Yes and Amen!!!! Is this a problem for you?

When your born again brother, God has opened your eyes!

So did God open your eyes that Calvinism is the Gospel? Or did you come to this conclusion through personal human study of what has been written to all Christians? If it is the latter, then you could be wrong, seeing how we are just human. If it is the former, then you believe you have been given Divine revelation that Calvinism is the Gospel. But then remember, we have brother Browner in another thread claiming to have been given Divine revelation that practicing righteousness justifies a person unto eternal life. I also have a brother who believes he has been given Divine revelation that Millennial Exclusion is biblical.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Well, evidence for yourself came pretty easily. Found it right here in this very post...

In other words you have no evidence and merely, yet falsely, accuse. Gather up the evidence and substantiate your accusations.

When your <sic> born again brother, God has opened your eyes!

Right, but your misnomer I quoted was intended to malign, not commend Calvinist brothers.

So did God open your eyes that Calvinism is the Gospel? Or did you come to this conclusion through personal human study of what has been written to all Christians?

All truths that believers are led into are from God, 1 Cor. 2:14ff, Ephesians 1:9; 17ff; Acts 26:17ff; Acts 16:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6.

Is your study 'personal human study' or is that implication just for those you hold in contempt, i.e. Calvinist brothers?

If it is the latter, then you could be wrong, seeing how we are just human. If it is the former, then you believe you have been given Divine revelation that Calvinism is the Gospel.

It's haughty of you to make pretense that whatever truths the Calvinists hold to fall under your two indictments above. They do not.

Read the above passages for the answer to this. Personally no one taught me 'Calvinism' but having read the Word after hearing of the DoG I am convinced of their truths, by God, by His Word, by His spirit and Soli Deo Gloria. No books were sought, only Scripture. These truths are capable of being readily defended Biblically.

But then remember, we have brother Browner in another thread claiming to have been given Divine revelation that practicing righteousness justifies a person unto eternal life. I also have a brother who believes he has been given Divine revelation that Millennial Exclusion is biblical.

And then we have your beliefs that are amiss in many ways which you affirm as truth.

I believe you've been schooled on here often enough and it is noted by many. To date all you've offered are straw man arguments, ad hominem, and no solid biblical exegesis.

But back to my premise, provide this evidence that you've accused and have failed to supply. It is most unChristian of you to falsely accuse brothers on here, and to go on doing so without having provided a bit of evidence.

 

[steaver]

In other words you have no evidence and merely, yet falsely, accuse. Gather up the evidence and substantiate your accusations.



Right, but your misnomer I quoted was intended to malign, not commend Calvinist brothers.



All truths that believers are led into are from God, 1 Cor. 2:14ff, Ephesians 1:9; 17ff; Acts 26:17ff; Acts 16:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6.

Is your study 'personal human study' or is that implication just for those you hold in contempt, i.e. Calvinist brothers?



It's haughty of you to make pretense that whatever truths the Calvinists hold to fall under your two indictments above. They do not.

Read the above passages for the answer to this. Personally no one taught me 'Calvinism' but having read the Word after hearing of the DoG I am convinced of their truths, by God, by His Word, by His spirit and Soli Deo Gloria. No books were sought, only Scripture. These truths are capable of being readily defended Biblically.



And then we have your beliefs that are amiss in many ways which you affirm as truth.

I believe you've been schooled on here often enough and it is noted by many. To date all you've offered are straw man arguments, ad hominem, and no solid biblical exegesis.

But back to my premise, provide this evidence that you've accused and have failed to supply. It is most unChristian of you to falsely accuse brothers on here, and to go on doing so without having provided a bit of evidence.

Lol. You just confirmed that you declare God taught you Calvinism. Which is the point you are contending I falsely accuse you of. Lol

 

[JonC]

I was trying to be a good forum member, and not start a thread for something that's been covered already.

Awhile back I started a thread "Cats who use the toilet" just to have an original topic. But it had been covered already. There are few new topics here...but there are plenty of new dialogues.

 

[JonC]

Here's what I see frm Calvinist, and I would say I have seen it from each one here on this board. Calvinist are convinced they have received special Divine revelation that Calvinism is the gospel. They believe "God opened my eyes" or something to that effect. To hear them speak they talk as one talks when they are born-again. Thus, there is no debate, no true consideration from a Calvinist that they could be wrong. Therefore they are only here to indoctrinate. Calvinism is not just a theology for them. It truly is the very gospel to them.

I don't see this from every Calvinist here (in fact, I don't really see it in most Calvinists here). Some do seem to be indoctrinated and some appear to be here only to indoctrinate (to accept or offer a belief without question or consideration of other views). But this is not limited to Calvinists, either on the BB or outside in "real life." We (non-Calvinists) have done the same in our churches when we give our interpretation of Scripture as Scripture. The indoctrinated are biblically illiterate people who will fight hard for their view but be unable to objectively handle Scripture and alternate interpretations. In debate they will always end up attacking people. I see a few in both camps, and probably a little bit of this in all of us depending on the issue of discussion.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Lol. You just confirmed that you declare God taught you Calvinism. Which is the point you are contending I falsely accuse you of. Lol

I've not read Calvin, have you? I'm alluding to the biblical truths I hold which would fall under the 5 solas. The doctrines of election, foreknowledge, predestination, inability of man are all biblical and can be defended readily without consulting any other theologian.

But who indoctrinated you into your decisional, synergistic Finneyism? It's certainly not Biblical but you do assuredly hold to it. Your system is only a couple hundred years old, or so and you've been taught the system by men.

Last request: go gather the evidence of your false accusations or remain considered a teller of untruths.

 

[steaver]

I've not read Calvin, have you? I'm alluding to the biblical truths I hold which would fall under the 5 solas. The doctrines of election, foreknowledge, predestination, inability of man are all biblical and can be defended readily without consulting any other theologian.

But who indoctrinated you into your decisional, synergistic Finneyism? It's certainly not Biblical but you do assuredly hold to it. Your system is only a couple hundred years old, or so and you've been taught the system by men.

Last request: go gather the evidence of your false accusations or remain considered a teller of untruths.

You would have us believe that you studied the bible and came to the conclusion that there are these "5 solas" found in scripture before you ever heard of calvinism's TULIP?

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't see this from every Calvinist here (in fact, I don't really see it in most Calvinists here).

Folks like Steaver and I have been on this board for a long time. We have been in debate after debate with cals over the years. What you think you see in your relatively short time here is far different from what we see having been over this stuff time and time again.

 

[steaver]

Folks like Steaver and I have been on this board for a long time. We have been in debate after debate with cals over the years. What you think you see in your relatively short time here is far different from what we see having been over this stuff time and time again.

Yes. I am asked to give evidence. And in that very request more evidence was provided.