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Featured Not Closed Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 16, 2023.

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  1. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    @Van please get over yourself. Your response just shows that you feel like you are being attacked.

    "Unless your theology holds that God is the author of sin, you are an open theist to some degree." That is a logically false statement. Why does the rejection of one false idea "God is the author of sin" require that you accept another false idea, that God's knowledge of the future is flexible?

    Open theism posits that since God and humans are free, God's knowledge is dynamic and God's providence flexible. Therefore it sees God's knowledge of the future as a plurality of branching possibilities, with some possibilities becoming settled as time moves forward. Thus, the future, as well as God's knowledge of it, is open (hence, "open" theism).     Rhoda, Alan R.; Boyd, Gregory A.; Belt, Thomas G. (2006). "Open Theism, Omniscience, and the Nature of the Future"
     
    #321 Silverhair, Nov 22, 2023
  2. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Van, incredibly, I have to agree with @Silverhair. Your statement is illogical and shows your lack of understanding regarding open theism and sovereign grace.
     
    #322 taisto, Nov 22, 2023
  3. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Your statement is the equivalent of saying "God may choose to cover his ears, close his eyes, and shout out 'Nah, nah, na boo boo' if he desires."

    Again, you're just being silly.
     
    #323 taisto, Nov 22, 2023
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Addressing me rather than the topic is the sine quo non of an empty suit.

    Note I have been charged with an illogical view, God's certain knowledge of our future action predestines that one and only action.
    But note these twaddle merchants do not describe why the obvious is not obvious.

    The view that God knows everything imaginable, rather than everything He chooses to know, is unbiblical, denying the very words of scripture, time and time again.
     
    #324 Van, Nov 29, 2023
  5. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    No one has denied scripture.
    I'm sorry your feelings have been hurt by me calling your statements silly. I still think you're being silly, however.
     
    #325 taisto, Nov 29, 2023
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    And the personal remarks of the unstudied poster continue unabated.

    God's certain knowledge of our future action predestines those actions as the only ones possible.

    The view that God knows everything imaginable, rather than everything He chooses to know, is unbiblical, denying the very words of scripture, time and time again.

    Do you deny God the Son did not know the time of His return?
    Do you deny God said "Now I know" when Abraham was ready to slay his son?
    Do you deny God can forgive our sin and "remember it no more forever?"

    On the one hand we have the unstudied everything imaginable view, and on the other hand we have the biblically based view.
     
    #326 Van, Nov 29, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did Jesus know the time of His return? Nope. Is Jesus God. Yep. Therefore God knows what He chooses to know.

    Here is the Cognitive Dissonance of Arminianism.: God knows what will happen, yet we could could choose either alternative.
    Actually we could only choose the one choice God knows we will make, otherwise God would be wrong.

    OTOH, since God knows what He chooses to know, He is not the author of sin because His perfect knowledge does not predestine our choice to sin.
     
    #327 Van, Nov 29, 2023
  8. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    I assume you are Trinitarian. You realize then that Jesus is both fully God and fully man. "No man knoweth the hour" so Jesus the man says he doesn't know. Jesus - God fully knows.
    God is fully Sovereign, knowing all things. That may seem like a paradox, yet it is still true.

    I'm not Arminian.

    Your assertion is wrong and you make God less than perfect and less than all knowing. You have a small god, Van.

    We, who hold to the full Sovereignty of God, will never be persuaded by your cheap version of God.
     
    #328 taisto, Nov 29, 2023
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I thought the fully God Jesus said only the Father knew. Does God the Father know more than the Son of the living God?


    Just asking.
     
    #329 percho, Nov 30, 2023
  10. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    The fully human Jesus did say only God the Father knew. I'm not sure what the problem is with understanding Jesus full humanity while in earth.
    Did Jesus say that he would never know the time? Was Jesus fully in his new body as he was after the resurrection?
    I suggest that his comment was a temporary statement as he followed the human path to the cross, not as a permanent, never able to know part of his existence.
     
    #330 taisto, Nov 30, 2023
  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    My bad I was thinking of the following.

    When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
     
    #331 percho, Dec 1, 2023
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, why not answer these easy questions????

    The issue is not that Jesus is God incarnate, the issue is Jesus, God incarnate, is said to know all things yet does not know the time of His return. Obviously an errant translation.

    I the issue is not whether you are or are not an Arminian, the issue is if God knows our future choice, that is the only choice we can make, thus predestined. Denial is cognitive dissonance.

    God knows what He chooses to know. That is objectively true. Your unstated claim is either God has chosen to know everything imaginable when scripture demonstrates God does not know that He has chosen not to know, or God is not all powerful enough to be able not to know something, which makes your God smaller than the one described in scripture.
     
    #332 Van, Dec 3, 2023
  13. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    I answered your question.
    Jesus is fully man. Does man know everything? As a man, Jesus tells us that God the Father knows.
    Jesus is fully God, and yet as fully man, He left that knowledge for His Father.

    This is a paradox and I am perfectly content to live with this paradox. You seem discontent.
     
    #333 taisto, Dec 3, 2023
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, no need to hide under the invisibility cloak of "paradox."

    Jesus in the flesh is said to know all things yet did not know the time of His return.
     
    #334 Van, Dec 4, 2023
  15. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Van, do you believe God is not ruler over all his creation? Is God unaware of something?
     
    #335 taisto, Dec 4, 2023
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Thread closed due to length.

    Please feel free to start another.
     
    #336 JonC, Dec 5, 2023
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