Not saved by works?

[James1023]

First of all I want to say I know that i am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ’s precious blood. And just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says no work I do of myself can help me in the Father’s eyes.

But when I heard David Jeremiah, preach on the radio many, many years ago I recall him asking why do Christian stop at Ephesians 2:9? For the following verse agree with James 2:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

 

[Steven Yeadon]

First of all I want to say I know that i am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ’s precious blood. And just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says no work I do of myself can help me in the Father’s eyes.

But when I heard David Jeremiah, preach on the radio many, many years ago I recall him asking why do Christian stop at Ephesians 2:9? For the following verse agree with James 2:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

Christians are changed by regeneration when the Holy Spirit indwells us. Second, faith ALWAYS causes works.

However, works in no way make us righteous before God. However, faith always changes our mind, emotions. and will if we really believe in Jesus Christ and His Cross on genuine faith.

 

[Yeshua1]

First of all I want to say I know that i am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ’s precious blood. And just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says no work I do of myself can help me in the Father’s eyes.

But when I heard David Jeremiah, preach on the radio many, many years ago I recall him asking why do Christian stop at Ephesians 2:9? For the following verse agree with James 2:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

Fruit would be the result of us now being saved, but not a cause of that!

 

[AustinC]

First of all I want to say I know that i am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ’s precious blood. And just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says no work I do of myself can help me in the Father’s eyes.

But when I heard David Jeremiah, preach on the radio many, many years ago I recall him asking why do Christian stop at Ephesians 2:9? For the following verse agree with James 2:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

God's gift of faith will manifest itself in the good works God has ordained for us. Thus, faith with no manifestation of works is an empty claim. When you see someone claiming to be a Christian, but living like a pagan, it is best to treat that person as if they are a pagan. If they are a member in your congregation, kick them out and remove their membership until they repent and show evidence of saving faith.

 

[Reformed1689]

First of all I want to say I know that i am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ’s precious blood. And just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says no work I do of myself can help me in the Father’s eyes.

But when I heard David Jeremiah, preach on the radio many, many years ago I recall him asking why do Christian stop at Ephesians 2:9? For the following verse agree with James 2:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

Not sure anyone has argued that we are not to do good works?

 

[James1023]

Thanks for the feedback really appreciated all the answers and pretty much if not completely agree with them.

 

[JPPT1974]

Bible and God tells us to walk by faith, not by sight. Faith is things not seen but eternal but sight is temporary and you do see it.

 

[Nicolaus Mourer]

When you get saved, the Spirit comes to indwell us as another poster previously stated. However, where I disagree is the idea that "faith always causes works." Unfortunately, the Bible just does not say that. In fact, one could argue that is why Paul and the other apostles exhort believers to good works so often. If the rule were true that "faith always produces works," then it would be redundant for the apostles to speak of walking in them.

This notion that salvation completely revamps your old ways, mindset, habits, etc. is a false one. 2 Corinthians 5:17 is true; our inward man is renewed after the knowledge of him and we become a new creation. However, Galatians 5:17 is also true in that the old man in his lusts wars against the new man and his godly desires.

It is far more accurate to say that, upon getting saved and receiving the Holy Spirit's indwelling, an inner conflict develops within us that will last for the rest of our lives. This conflict is centered around obeying the Lord, walking in the Spirit and thus fulfilling the good works we're foreordained to, or choosing to obey the lusts of the flesh according to the desires of the old man. Either way, our salvation is not affected, but our walk with God is. This is why we're told repeatedly in scripture to do good works, to walk in the Spirit, to be rooted and grounded in the faith, etc.

By the way, I wouldn't get in the habit of thinking a "true believer" will always show fruit, that is, in judging a person's salvation based upon their works. True believers come in many different shapes and sizes - some are obedient, zealous laborers... and some are backslidden wretches. Are the two saved differently? No. Is one more loved in God's eyes because of his works? No, Christ died to provide the free gift for them both apart from their personal works. So, it's a fallacy to judge the sincerity of one's faith by their works since we're not saved by works to begin with.

 

[Van]

First of all I want to say I know that i am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ’s precious blood. And just as Ephesians 2:8-9 says no work I do of myself can help me in the Father’s eyes.

But when I heard David Jeremiah, preach on the radio many, many years ago I recall him asking why do Christian stop at Ephesians 2:9? For the following verse agree with James 2:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

Excellent post, excellent question. The simple answer is before we are born anew, all our works of righteousness as as filthy rags to God. But, once born anew we are a new creation, created for, wait for it, good works. With our "good works" building on the foundation of Christ, we earn rewards such that we enter heaven "abundantly."

For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you. (2 Peter 1:8-11)

For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test he quality of each man’s work.

If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

 

[AustinC]

When you get saved, the Spirit comes to indwell us as another poster previously stated. However, where I disagree is the idea that "faith always causes works." Unfortunately, the Bible just does not say that. In fact, one could argue that is why Paul and the other apostles exhort believers to good works so often. If the rule were true that "faith always produces works," then it would be redundant for the apostles to speak of walking in them.

This notion that salvation completely revamps your old ways, mindset, habits, etc. is a false one. 2 Corinthians 5:17 is true; our inward man is renewed after the knowledge of him and we become a new creation. However, Galatians 5:17 is also true in that the old man in his lusts wars against the new man and his godly desires.

It is far more accurate to say that, upon getting saved and receiving the Holy Spirit's indwelling, an inner conflict develops within us that will last for the rest of our lives. This conflict is centered around obeying the Lord, walking in the Spirit and thus fulfilling the good works we're foreordained to, or choosing to obey the lusts of the flesh according to the desires of the old man. Either way, our salvation is not affected, but our walk with God is. This is why we're told repeatedly in scripture to do good works, to walk in the Spirit, to be rooted and grounded in the faith, etc.

By the way, I wouldn't get in the habit of thinking a "true believer" will always show fruit, that is, in judging a person's salvation based upon their works. True believers come in many different shapes and sizes - some are obedient, zealous laborers... and some are backslidden wretches. Are the two saved differently? No. Is one more loved in God's eyes because of his works? No, Christ died to provide the free gift for them both apart from their personal works. So, it's a fallacy to judge the sincerity of one's faith by their works since we're not saved by works to begin with.

Faith always produces good works, but do Christians always live by faith?
Faith is a God given gift. By its nature it produces the works that God has ordained for us to do. But, we often live according to our flesh, neglecting the gift God has given us.

 

[MartyF]

Colossians 3:23-25 NLT
Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. [24] Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ. [25] But if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you have done. For God has no favorites.

Hebrews 6:10 NLT
For God is not unjust. He will not forget how hard you have worked for him and how you have shown your love to him by caring for other believers, as you still do.

 

[Yeshua1]

Faith always produces good works, but do Christians always live by faith?
Faith is a God given gift. By its nature it produces the works that God has ordained for us to do. But, we often live according to our flesh, neglecting the gift God has given us.

Hebrews 11 shows to us that when we are walking in real faith, as the Bible describes, that will result in us doing something for the Lord to advance his Kingdom work. The how much should be doing would be between us and God!

 

[Van]

When you get saved, the Spirit comes to indwell us as another poster previously stated. However, where I disagree is the idea that "faith always causes works." Unfortunately, the Bible just does not say that. In fact, one could argue that is why Paul and the other apostles exhort believers to good works so often. If the rule were true that "faith always produces works," then it would be redundant for the apostles to speak of walking in them.

This notion that salvation completely revamps your old ways, mindset, habits, etc. is a false one. 2 Corinthians 5:17 is true; our inward man is renewed after the knowledge of him and we become a new creation. However, Galatians 5:17 is also true in that the old man in his lusts wars against the new man and his godly desires.

It is far more accurate to say that, upon getting saved and receiving the Holy Spirit's indwelling, an inner conflict develops within us that will last for the rest of our lives. This conflict is centered around obeying the Lord, walking in the Spirit and thus fulfilling the good works we're foreordained to, or choosing to obey the lusts of the flesh according to the desires of the old man. Either way, our salvation is not affected, but our walk with God is. This is why we're told repeatedly in scripture to do good works, to walk in the Spirit, to be rooted and grounded in the faith, etc.

By the way, I wouldn't get in the habit of thinking a "true believer" will always show fruit, that is, in judging a person's salvation based upon their works. True believers come in many different shapes and sizes - some are obedient, zealous laborers... and some are backslidden wretches. Are the two saved differently? No. Is one more loved in God's eyes because of his works? No, Christ died to provide the free gift for them both apart from their personal works. So, it's a fallacy to judge the sincerity of one's faith by their works since we're not saved by works to begin with.

Although I think it is a little off the mark, I liked your post.

As James explained, a person can claim to have "faith" but in reality, it is a "dead faith" from which a spiritual person does not grow. On the other hand, a "live faith" is one from which good works flows, which requires that the live faith resulted in God causing the person to be born anew. The fly in the buttermilk is that a person can proclaim faith, yet God did not credit that faith as righteousness. According to Matthew 13, this "proclaimed faith" is "dead faith" which will die out over time or when difficulty over faith arises.

And the problem with "backslidden wretches" is they may not be actually saved. According to scripture our faith, if we are born anew, is protected by the power of God, so deep down the person still loves and is devoted to Christ. Lacking that evidence, the person should ponder Matthew 7.

 

[37818]

Matthew 7:21-23, professing Jesus as Lord trusting in works.

 

[MB]

Faith always produces good works, but do Christians always live by faith?
Faith is a God given gift. By its nature it produces the works that God has ordained for us to do. But, we often live according to our flesh, neglecting the gift God has given us.

Salvation is the gift and faith comes by hearing. Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
MB

 

[agedman]

Matthew 7:21-23, professing Jesus as Lord trusting in works.

Not certain that is supported from the passage you cited.

Perhaps you meant “trusting in (His) work.”

 

[37818]

Not certain that is supported from the passage you cited.

Perhaps you meant “trusting in (His) work.”

Jesus says to them, "I never knew you." They were not trusting in Christ's work. Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[agedman]

Jesus says to them, "I never knew you." They were not trusting in Christ's work. Matthew 7:21-23.

Ok,
That is what I thought you meant, but I didn't want the casual reader of the posts to think you meant something else.

 

[Dave G]

Now I know that no work we can do, can save us. But my question is as Paul and IMO James write should not true believers show the works of the Holy Spirit or if you prefer His fruit show in the Christian’s life? Again not my own works but the Spirit’s fruit,

Agreed.
The good works that we do as a believers were wrought ( made or worked ) in God ( John 3:21 ).

God's children, Christ's "sheep" are His workmanship, created "in Christ Jesus" to those works ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
God has ordained that we should walk in them.

So, whatever good works a believer does, are put there by God for him or her to do.
In addition, we thrive on doing them.
After all, it is God who works in us, both to will, and to DO, of His good pleasure ( Philippians 2:13 ).

The works we do by faith make that faith a sure thing...
Therefore, faith without works is dead, because true Biblical faith is accompanied by good works.
In other words, we do the works, not to "get saved" or to stay saved, but because we are God's children.

They are the evidence of God's Spirit and God's work within us.
Good works are an indicator of the presence of the Holy Spirit.


May He bless you richly in your daily walk with Him.

 

[Dave G]

Salvation is the gift and faith comes by hearing

" He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." ( Matthew 11:15 ).

" He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." ( Revelation 3:6 ).

" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. " ( Romans 10:16-20 ).

People "hear" because it has been given them to have "ears to hear"..
Those that "hear" God words, biblically, are those that are "of God" ( John 8:43-47 ).

Faith is the gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ), Authored and Finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and is not given to all men ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ).
It is the evidence of our salvation ( Hebrews 11:1 ).
If all men had it, they would believe on Christ when He is preached.
Instead, we see 1 Corinthians 1:18 as being the rule...

The preaching of the cross is, to them that perish...foolishness.
To us which are saved, it is the power of God.

I wish you well, sir, and may He continually remind you of His great grace through His Son, Jesus Christ.
There is no greater thing than to be found in the favor of God.