Not taking "communion"

[Abiyah]

First of all, I take the seder very seriously, even
while enjoying it.

And my questioning this probably comes from
some deep personal assessment I am going
through at this time. Right now, I am questioning
a lot of my own actions, words, thoughts and their
consequential attitudes, and how these all effect
others.

 

[BobRyan]

Abiyah --
Bob, you are really pushing me into a corner!
I was trying not to get into this. I will just was that
it is my personal belief that this practice should
not be practiced outside of the Pesach seder.

In Acts 15 the debate over the issue of Gentiles having to abopt Jewish practice and customs is debated the outcome seems to exempt the Gentiles. In Acts 21 we see a "review" of that decision and it appears to be clear there as well.

In Romans 14 the issue is again brought up about all the "holy days" that are to be "observed". The point is made that some Christians "observe all of them" while others "observe one above another". The "principle" of Romans 14 argues that you can not insist that any other Christian "observe" one of those feast Holy days.

Further - we have indications from Acts 2 that at one time they celebrated the Lords Supper daily from house to house. If we restrict each one to a formal Passover meal it would not work.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Abiyah]

Bob --

I already know this is the way you and some others
read the Scriptures. I don't. We all see them
through the teaching we have received. I am
not going to get into this.

. . . although it is tempting!! . . . .

 

[John Gilmore]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
Thessalonian and John Gilmore --

Wow! I had no idea! Letters in order to join in, and
people forcing others to partake, the latter being
horribly ridiculous! What we have done to people
in the name of religion!!

Also, I always thought your word, "Communion,"
intended communion wth the Messiah; have I
misunderstood, and it intends communion with
a congregation or with people?

Of course, forcing anyone to communion is wrong either physically or by social pressure.

There is a vertical and a horizontal element to communion. "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." 1 Cor. 10:16, 17 So the letter is one means of attesting to the unity of faith that is necessary to celebrate the holy Supper (1 Cor. 11:19, 20). Also churches who teach the physical presence are more likely to practice closed communion because they do not want to admit those who do not discern the "Lord's Body."

 

[Abiyah]

Another oops!

 

[Abiyah]

I have heard of open communion as well as close
and closed. It is easy to understand what open
and closed mean, but what is the meaning of close?

 

[John Gilmore]

The term "close" is often used in lieu of "closed" to indicate that the congregation does not want to be separatistic, or set themselves up as judges of other men. The practice of Close(d) Communion must be prompted by love and the heartfelt conviction, on the basis of Scripture alone, that we must follow Christ's command. Practically, I see no difference between the two terms.

Even when the term "close communion" is used, there may be offense. For example, take these lyrics by a liberal Lutheran (belonging to a synod that practices open communion) denied communion by a conservative Lutheran pastor:

yeah, i knew that we were different
but i didn’t know it would hurt so bad
and the pastor passed me by
he would not let me take the bread and wine
and my heart froze and tears came to my eyes
closed out of close communion
closed out of close communion

Closed Out, Jonathan Rundman

 

[Jude]

Originally posted by John Gilmore:
Do Anglicans such as yourself who belief in the physical presence of Christ in Holy Supper share communion with Anglicans who do not? If so, why considering the lack of unity of belief and the failure to discern the body of Christ?

The requirements for participation are (1)baptism, and (2)confession of sin before receiving. Implicit in the first is belief in Christ as the Son of God, and all the doctrines of the Catholic faith. We do not 'ask' if someone believes in the Real Presence. Frankly, though, most lay persons do.

 

[Dan Todd]

Recently I taught membership classes to the teens in my Sunday School Class.

When communion came up - this was my definition of open, close, closed.

open - offered to all with not particular discernment as to their spiritual situation.

close - offered to all who are born again, Scripturally baptized, and in a right relationship with God (this is explained when we celebrate the Lord's Supper at our church)

closed - offered only to those who are born again, baptized, a member of the local church, and in a right relationship with God.

I have been in attendance at the communion service of several other churches besides my own. My decision to participate is based upon:

1. Is it a church of "like precious faith?"
2. Do they offer the proper elements (unleaven bread and unfermented "fruit of the vine?"

If the answer to both is yes - I participate - if the answer is no - I do not.

Dan

 

[CatholicConvert]

Ummmmmmmmmm.....looks like someone didn't appreciate my little comment about crackers and grape juice not being able to confer eternal life.

I see it disappeared from this thread.

Truth hurts, don't it?

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
I don't understand. What difference does it make whether you partake or not?

Hey, it's just a cracker and some grape juice, right?

So how does it hurt you to not partake? It's not like the cracker and grape juice can either give or take away from you eternal life.

I wouldn't sweat it myself if I were you.

AND THANK GOD I'M NOT AND WE HAVE THAT WHICH JESUS SAYS CONFERS ETERNAL LIFE -- HIS TRUE BODY AND BLOOD UNDER THE APPEARENCE OF BREAD AND WINE!!

Your post hasn't been deleted. It's still there.
Diane

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
Ummmmmmmmmm.....looks like someone didn't appreciate my little comment about crackers and grape juice not being able to confer eternal life.

I see it disappeared from this thread.

Truth hurts, don't it?

I very sincerely doubt that anyone believes that. I
thought the post was only written in order to incite,
so I initially ignored it.

 

[Johnv]

Uh, I think we're splitting hairs here.

Abiyah, if you're not comfortable taking communion at another church, then you are under no obligation to do so. Communion is voluntary.

That being said, if another church practices closed communion, then we who are not members of that church should respect their rules and the way they practice their faith, and not take communion there.

 

[Abiyah]

Yeah, John, I've drawn that conclusion from the
posts here. My husband and I both left a church
in which if one did not join, it was an affront, and
they assumed the worst. However, while we both
try not to measure anything by this church, which
I believe is a cult, we carry the problems it
implanted in our minds. I have rejected all I
learned there, or, at least, am trying to. I have
learned not to measure any religious entity by
their teachings.

My husband, initially, was concerned about my
not partaking. I think he has felt a little defensive,
because he has told me that he explains my
beliefs at his church. He is one of the elders
there, and I am not attending with him, so I can
see that this places him in somewhat of a
predicament.

Well, thank all of you for your help. It is
appreciated.

 

[thessalonian]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
Yeah, John, I've drawn that conclusion from the
posts here. My husband and I both left a church
in which if one did not join, it was an affront, and
they assumed the worst. However, while we both
try not to measure anything by this church, which
I believe is a cult, we carry the problems it
implanted in our minds. I have rejected all I
learned there, or, at least, am trying to. I have
learned not to measure any religious entity by
their teachings.

My husband, initially, was concerned about my
not partaking. I think he has felt a little defensive,
because he has told me that he explains my
beliefs at his church. He is one of the elders
there, and I am not attending with him, so I can
see that this places him in somewhat of a
predicament.

Well, thank all of you for your help. It is
appreciated.

Abiyah,

Somewhat unrelated to this thread but related, there is a woman who went the route through Judaism (she grew up an orthodox Jew) evangelical protestantism and ended up in Catholicism. Here name is Rolalind Moss. I love listening to her because she relates Judaism and Catholicism quite nicely. Not sure if these shows from Catholic Answers have the part where she speaks about the seder but it might be of interest to you in your journey.

http://www.catholic.com/search_r.asp?searchType=radio&target=rosalind

Hope your PC has sound.

The leaves are starting to turn pretty good up hear in Minnesota but with the drought it probably isn't going to be that great a fall. Have you ever been in the North Central part of the state. That is my favorite with the lakes with pine covered islands.


God bless.

Thessalonian

 

[Abiyah]

I am sorry, Thessalonian! I receive my Internet
service through my cable TV, thus no sound. I
bought a new computer that should be able to do
everything but have babies, and I cannot hook it up
to Internet -- the modem is faulty. The people who
sold it to me were supposed to fix it, but they
haven't yet. Never again, from them!

Actually, Thess, there is little in similarities between
the RCC and us, but we both do use . . . I can't
think of what you call it -- ours is from a siddur.
--Ah! Liturgy! I am not sure what your liturgy
entails, but ours is a series of prayers from the
Scriptures.

I am not sure what else is similar, because I have
only been in a Catholic church once, for a
wedding in Minnesota -- in the fall, in a northern
part of the state.

I Love Duluth! My first husband and I used to go
there for skiing season and for canoeing. When
he died, I used to just take the children there
"because." I love that area. Lovely. There is no
autumn more lovely than one enjoyed in
Minnesota and Wisconsin. The colors cannot be
compared. While I love the West Coast, we have
nothing compared to your fall season.

Do you eat that fresh, real maple syrup? Mm-m-m!

 

[thessalonian]

"Actually, Thess, there is little in similarities between
the RCC and us, but we both do use . . . I can't
think of what you call it -- ours is from a siddur.
--Ah! Liturgy! I am not sure what your liturgy
entails, but ours is a series of prayers from the
Scriptures."

Actually there are far more than you know of. I was reading a book called "why do Jews do that" and was amazed at how many things tie in to Catholicism. I am sorry you cannot access Mrs. Moss or you would find out otherwise. First of all our Liturgy is primarily from scripture. Some of the prayers come straight out of the Jewish liturgies (not specifically the Bible, I can look one up if you like). The candle next to the tabernacle is rooted in the Jews keeping a candle lit by the Ark of the Covenant. The whole idea of the sacrifice of the Mass and the Altar is based on Jewish sacrifice. The priestly garments, etc. etc. Much more than I can detail here.

Outside the Mass there is our prayers for the dead related to the Kaddish. Our liturgy of the hours at the morning, evening, and night is rooted in the Jewish prayers at specific times of the day. There are many more things that are intimately tied in to the Jewish ways. Wish I had bought the book (perhaps I will) but there is much much more. You would not know if you are not Catholic and have only gone to one Mass. Perhaps I will find some online that you can access. Evangelical Christianity would have you think the early Church was not Jewish or completely abaondoned it's Jewishness. Not so.


Blessings

 

[Jude]

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
Ummmmmmmmmm.....looks like someone didn't appreciate my little comment about crackers and grape juice not being able to confer eternal life.

I see it disappeared from this thread.

Truth hurts, don't it?

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control...let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other." Gal.5.22,26

 

[Abiyah]

Hi, Thessalonian. When I said that the RCC is not
like us in very many ways, I intended all the ways
in which we disagree strongly. I know that the RCC
practices some things that may look similar, but
truly, it is very different.

It has a different worship day, completely different
set of holidays, different fasts, different foods,
celebrates communion daily, priests, pope, nuns,
and I could go on. We do none of these and have
nothing similar.

 

[Abiyah]

Oh! And I should add:

We don't pray for the dead or do some other things
connected with Judaism. We believe in our Lord,
the Messiah, which mainstream Judaism does not
accept. I assumed you know those things but
then thought I should add them just in case you
did not.