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Not to Vaccinate is a Sin

rbell

Active Member
Am I my brother's keeper?

Nice job of destroying the contextual point of a Scripture passage.


By the way, when did you renounce the idea of "Priesthood of the Believer?" I thought you were a Baptist at one time, and that's generally important to Baptists.

So, is your "priest" the state now?

What an unbiblical, bizarre idea to push. It tramples on "priesthood of the believer," and it simply ignores whom God expects to raise kids.

I would expect someone of your intelligence to have seen that straightaway.


This idea pushed by the Newsweek wingnuts isn't just dumb...it's stupid. Meta-stupid. It's going to form a stupid quasar and emanate stupid rays that can be measured light years away in all directions.
 

targus

New Member
I find it nothing short of bizzare that the author of this thread that wants us to accept that not getting vaccinated for the flu is a sin...

...has no problem putting abortion supporters/promoters in positions of authority where they can further their funding and promotion of REAL SIN !!!
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
More than half the women in this world accept abortion at one level or another. I think it is time to give up on that bandwagon, and attack the real problem.

On flu vaccination. It may not be a sin, but it foolish this time around, in my opinion.

Cheers,

Jim
 

Crabtownboy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nice job of destroying the contextual point of a Scripture passage.

In what way? The idea of being my brothers keeper being extended to the human family is one that has long been accepted in Christianity and Judaism

A saying from the Bible's story of Cain and Abel. After Cain had murdered his brother Abel, God asked him where his brother was. Cain answered, “I know not; am I my brother's keeper?”

# Cain's words have come to symbolize people's unwillingness to accept responsibility for the welfare of their fellows — their “brothers” in the extended sense of the term. The tradition of Judaism and Christianity is that people do have this responsibility. (See Good Samaritan, Love thy neighbor as thyself, and Love your enemies.)

http://www.answers.com/topic/am-i-my-brother-s-keeper

What was God's answer to Cain?


10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground

So, yes we are out brothers keeper. Their blood, if we have ignored them or not helped them cries out.

II. Cain's plea: he pleads not guilty, and adds rebellion to his sin. For, 1. He endeavours to cover a deliberate murder with a deliberate lie: I know not. He knew well enough what had become of Abel, and yet had the impudence to deny it. Thus, in Cain, the devil was both a murderer and a liar from the beginning. See how sinners' minds are blinded, and their hearts hardened by the deceitfulness of sin: those are strangely blind that think it possible to conceal their sins from a God that sees all, and those are strangely hard that think it desirable to conceal them from a God who pardons those only that confess. 2. He impudently charges his Judge with folly and injustice, in putting this question to him: Am I my brother's keeper? He should have humbled himself, and have said, Am not I my brother's murderer? But he flies in the face of God himself, as if he had asked him an impertinent question, to which he was no way obliged to give an answer: "Am I my brother's keeper? Surely he is old enough to take care of himself, nor did I ever take any charge of him." Some think he reflects on God and his providence, as if he had said, "Art not thou his keeper? If he be missing, on thee be the blame, and not on me, who never undertook to keep him." Note, A charitable concern for our brethren, as their keepers, is a great duty, which is strictly required of us, but is generally neglected by us. Those who are unconcerned in the affairs of their brethren, and take no care, when they have opportunity, to prevent their hurt in their bodies, goods, or good name, especially in their souls, do, in effect, speak Cain's language. See Lev. xix. 17; Phil. ii. 4.

III. The conviction of Cain, v. 10. God gave no direct answer to his question, but rejected his plea as false and frivolous: "What hast thou done? Thou makest a light matter of it; but hast thou considered what an evil thing it is, how deep the stain, how heavy the burden, of this guilt is? Thou thinkest to conceal it, but it is to no purpose, the evidence against thee is clear and incontestable: The voice of thy brother's blood cries." He speaks as if the blood itself were both witness and prosecutor, because God's own knowledge testified against him and God's own justice demanded satisfaction. Observe here, 1. Murder is a crying sin, none more so. Blood calls for blood, the blood of the murdered for the blood of the murderer; it cries in the dying words of Zechariah (2 Chron. xxiv. 22), The Lord look upon it and require it; or in those of the souls under the altar (Rev. vi. 10), How long, Lord, holy, and true? The patient sufferers cried for pardon (Father, forgive them), but their blood cries for vengeance. Though they hold their peace, their blood has a loud and constant cry, to which the ear of the righteous God is always open. 2. The blood is said to cry from the ground, the earth, which is said to open her mouth to receive his brother's blood from his hand, v. 11. The earth did, as it were, blush to see her own face stained with such blood, and therefore opened her mouth to hide that which she could not hinder. When the heaven revealed Cain's iniquity, the earth also rose up against him (Job xx. 27), and groaned on being thus made subject to vanity, Rom. viii. 20, 22. Cain, it is likely, buried the blood and the body, to conceal his crime; but "murder will out." He did not bury them so deep but the cry of them reached heaven. 3. In the original the word is plural, thy brother's bloods, not only his blood, but the blood of all those that might have descended from him; or the blood of all the seed of the woman, who should, in like manner, seal the truth with their blood. Christ puts all on one score (Matt. xxiii. 35); or because account was kept of every drop of blood shed. How well is it for us that the blood of Christ speaks better things than that of Abel! Heb. xii. 24. Abel's blood cried for vengeance, Christ's blood cries for pardon.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc1.Gen.v.html

Those who reject the idea that we are all our brothers keeper, that we are to help all are using Cain's language. We are basically saying to God, "They are your responsible. I didn't create them, you did."




By the way, when did you renounce the idea of "Priesthood of the Believer?" I thought you were a Baptist at one time, and that's generally important to Baptists.

Please elaborate on this. I do not see how being my brothers or brother's keeper violates the Priesthood of the Believer.

So, is your "priest" the state now?

The quote said nothing about the state.

What an unbiblical, bizarre idea to push. It tramples on "priesthood of the believer," and it simply ignores whom God expects to raise kids.

1. What if the parents are irresponisble?

2. Are you saying the parents should develop a flu vaccine for their kids? I do not believe you meant that.


I would expect someone of your intelligence to have seen that straightaway.


This idea pushed by the Newsweek wingnuts isn't just dumb...it's stupid. Meta-stupid. It's going to form a stupid quasar and emanate stupid rays that can be measured light years away in all directions.[/QUOTE]

Totally off topic rant. My quote did not come from Newsweek. Regardless, accept truth where you find it.
 

rbell

Active Member
More than half the women in this world accept abortion at one level or another. I think it is time to give up on that bandwagon, and attack the real problem.

Well now...I wasn't aware that we took votes and majority rule determined what sin was.

I also wasn't aware that we were supposed to give up on an issue, simply because it was difficult.

In addition, I wasn't aware that being pro-life was a "bandwagon." I guess there are fan club dues I am supposed to pay?

Finally, I wasn't aware that the murder of children wasn't a "real problem." How many millions have to die before the problem is no longer "fake?"

I know I commented on an off-topic post, but it was such a scary viewpoint, I had to say something.


On flu vaccination. It may not be a sin, but it foolish this time around, in my opinion.

Cheers,

Jim

And you have a right to that opinion. But for those who say it is "sinful"...that's just plain ridiculous.
 

rbell

Active Member
God asked Cain about Abel...the "brother's keeper" comment by Cain was a "smart-aleck" response to God...He knew what God was talking about. Cain was trying to absolve himself of the sin in his heart with that question to God. That issue has nothing to do with getting a vaccine because certain bureacrats, doctors, and BB posters think you should (and certain others are skeptical).

I and my wife researched the issue. We talked to our pediatrician...who is more qualified, likely smarter, and knows our issue better than you do. He advised us not to get it...even though he advised us to get the seasonal flu shot (which our kids did). We are also responsible enough to keep our kids away from others if they are sick, and we are decent enough parents to monitor our kids' health...and we will take action as needed.

That's why your "points" are offensive to folks like me. You waltz into this subject with an air of superiority, and then act as if Christian parents such as myself are intentionally harming our children, or are just too plain stupid to care for them. Perhaps you should revisit a historic Baptist tenet, and think on this: Last time I checked, God can guide me without going through an intermediary on the BaptistBoard.

I had a cousin who was hospitalized for over a week in 1976...from a reaction to the "safe and effective" swine flu vaccine. So am I hesitant? Of course I am...especially when the scare campaign and the fast-tracking are in high gear. I'm going to research, pray, consult (with real doctors, not CTB), and do what is best for my family.

Sorry if that doesn't meet with your approval.
 

Johnv

New Member
Choosing not to vaccinate is not categorically a sin. In certain specific situations, however, choosing not to vaccinate can qualify as irresponsible. To what extent that irresponsibility crosses the line to qualify as sin is probably an argument better suited fo a separate thread.
 

rbell

Active Member
Choosing not to vaccinate is not categorically a sin. In certain specific situations, however, choosing not to vaccinate can qualify as irresponsible. To what extent that irresponsibility crosses the line to qualify as sin is probably an argument better suited fo a separate thread.

I can agree with that.
 

I Am Blessed 24

Active Member
I hope it's not a sin, because Senior Citizens are not eligible to receive it. Only people between the ages of 2 to 45, with no health problems, are candidates. :-/

I am moving this to a debate forum. It is a silly debate, IMO, but a debate nonetheless.
 

tinytim

<img src =/tim2.jpg>
Should we be willing to help our brother - yes!

If we are willing, why would we not help others by taking the shot and helping prevent its spread? That is not being forced by the government, but do so to help others not become ill because of our spreading the disease if we do not take the shot and do become ill.

The shot is not to help my brother.. it is to help me...

If he doesn't want to get sick, HE should get vaccinated.. MY vaccination won't work on him...

Geesh... the logic of liberals!

One day there will be a person leading the Government and no doubt will use this "brotherhood" of man hogwash to convince people to take his Mark...

After all, if we really loved our children and family.. we would want to provide for them.. and that means that we would be sinning if we didn't take the mark in order to buy and sell. After all, a man that won't provide for his family is worse than an infidel, and if that man refuses to "be certified" as a rightful citizen of the false messiah's government, then he will be called a sinner, and liberals will jump all over this, to push the agenda of their God... "The Government".. After all, it is no longer "In God we trust" with libs.. it is "In whatever the Government says we trust"..

When will you learn Crabby, ALL Politicians lie?
 

tinytim

<img src =/tim2.jpg>
More than half the women in this world accept abortion at one level or another. I think it is time to give up on that bandwagon, and attack the real problem.

On flu vaccination. It may not be a sin, but it foolish this time around, in my opinion.

Cheers,

Jim

Yes, and people who support abortion is going to Hell... God said there will be no murderers in Heaven... and if people have the power to stop abortion, and turn their head they are guilty too.

You can give up on it.. but I won't.

Slavery ended because God fearing people saw the dignity of every innocent human life...
The same will happen with Abortion.

BTW, I agree it may not be a sin.. but it may be foolish to not be prepared for something that we can prevent.
 
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Johnv

New Member
Yes, and people who support abortion is going to Hell...
So much for salvation being based on faith in Christ alone.
Is it a sin to refuse the vaccine to those over 45 ?
If a person is uncomfortable with the vaccine, then they shouldn't take it.

But if a person spreads hype over the supposed "dangers" of vaccination as a scare tactic, then there exists the possibility of that person being irresponsible to the point of qualifying as a sin. The same would be true of those spreading hype over the flu being the next doomsday virus or some such nonsense.
 
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Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
If a person is uncomfortable with the vaccine, then they shouldn't take it.

You misread the question. Is it a sin to discriminate against those over 45, where the vaccine is concerned ? Why does C.T.Boy's article allude to me being a sinner, when the vaccine isn't even available, for me ?
 

Johnv

New Member
You misread the question. Is it a sin to discriminate against those over 45, where the vaccine is concerned ?... Why does C.T.Boy's article allude to me being a sinner, when the vaccine isn't even available, for me ?
First of all, you ARE a sinner, as am I, but not for anything in this thread. Second, you dont' look a day over 45, so you better start sharing the secret to your longevity. Third, according to my own physician, he'll give it to any of his patients to ask for it, so long as he determines that it's medically appropriate for them, without regard to age.

So my $.02 on the topic is, consult with your physician rather than presuming sin where none might exist.
 

targus

New Member


Should we be willing to help our brother - yes!

If we are willing, why would we not help others by taking the shot and helping prevent its spread? That is not being forced by the government, but do so to help others not become ill because of our spreading the disease if we do not take the shot and do become ill.

If I do not get vaccinated and then catch the flu is it my fault or the fault of the person who carried the virus that infected me?

I am guessing that you would say that it is my fault.

Using that logic would it not then be the fault of anyone catching the virus from me if they too did not get vaccinated? And not my fault?

So where is the sin?
 
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