Brother Bob said:
Then reconcile the verses that you have posted. Why won't you do it.
If we say that we have no sin we make Christ a liar.
You say that one who is born again cannot sin.
Logically, you make Christ a liar, unless you are able to explain how these Scriptures are reconciled. Instead of just quoting them over and over again, try to explain them so it doesn't look to others like you are calling Christ a liar. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. What is it saying here?
And what is a sin unto death? You have yet to explain that also.
__________________
DHK
1. Well let me see, the first question is if we say we have no sin we make Christ a liar?
There is an inward man and there is an outward man. The outward man is the flesh and has yet to be delivered from
corruption so therefore it is subject to sin and needs and advocate with God, if it does sin. The outward man will not receive
its change unto the resurrection when this corruptable man shall put on incorruption and receive a body liken unto Christ which
can’t sin and will be perfect.
A man is a man is a man. You cannot make a false dichotomy by splitting man into outward and inward man. You refer to the resurrection, and certainly our "outward man" or flesh will rise again. But will it rise without the spirit, without the soul? Will it be just a glorified corpse without any life in it at all? You cannot dissect inward from outward. This temporal fleshly body that we have must always house that inward spirit and mind which causes the body to sin. The body does not sin in and of itself. The mind tells it what to do. Jesus said:
"Out of the heart (the inward man) proceeds adulteries, murders, fornications, etc." The heart, the mind, causes the body to act. It is not the body that is intrinsically evil; it is the mind infected with the sinful nature passed down to us by Adam.
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the
children of God.
So therefore, outwardly we cannot say we have no sin for we are living in a body that is perishing everyday.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics has nothing to do with our choosing to sin. Some day the resurrection will take place. That also has nothing to do with our choosing to sin.
Romans, chapter 7:18-25
2. Second question is "you say that one who is born again cannot sin.
It is not the outward man that is born again but it is the inward man which is where Jesus said I will come in and go no more out.
Again, your false dichotomy cannot work. You cannot dissect the body and spirit, and say that one sins and the other does not. Jesus never said that it was just the inward man that was born again. He told Nicodemus:
You must be born again. He did not say a part of Nicodemus, he was addressing Nicodemus as a whole person, not just a part. We don't divide people up.
My life, both on the inside and on the outside began to change the day that I was born again. Being born again affects the entire person, not just a part of him. The Holy Spirit comes and dwells within. But the person provides his body as the temple of God. (1Cor. 6:19,20)
Romans, chapter 7:18-25
So, we see that it is in the outward that sin abounds but in the inward man we have no sin for we cannot sin for we have been born of God and therefore cannot sin.
Paul teaches no such thing. In fact he teaches that sin dwells in him. He describes the great battle within--the flesh warring against the spirit. But you have falsely created a dichotomy that doesn't exist. You say: "So we see that it is in the outward that sin abounds." This is ridiculous. It is like saying that sin abounds in a corpse. Go to the cemetary and dig up all the dead bodies and there you will find sin. Is this right? Is that where sin is? It is in flesh, bones and "meat". This flesh is sin, as you call it. That is about the weirdest view of sin that I have ever heard.
Jesus taught that sin is from within--coming from within, coming from the heart--the inward man. It is not the outward man. He taught directly against that teaching, and told the Pharisees that they were hypocrites for teaching such doctrines themselves.
Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
--The outward man is not sinful. This is the teaching of Jesus.
Mark 7:20-23 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For
from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
The inward man is evil; not the outward man. This is the teaching of Jesus.
It is the inward man that controls what the outward man does.
And the inward man does sin, even the inward man of a believer, a born again Christian. He that says that he has no sin, even of a born again Christian makes Christ a liar.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
So if we say the inward man sinneth we are saying that the Spirit of the Lord that dwelleth in us is sinning.
Don't you go blaming your sin on God. That is akiin to blasphemy. You choose to sin, and you do it everyday, all the time. You can't live without sin, your sin. You may be called a saint in God's eyes, but you are still a sinner--a sinner saved by grace. We are called sinners for a reason. We sin. We are not perfect. Gal.3:10 and James 2:10 are just as true today as they were generations ago and they apply to you as much as they do to anyone else.
Grieve not the Holy Spirit, it says in Ephesians. If that command is there, then obviously it is possible for you to grieve the Holy Spirit that dwells in you. Just becasue the Holy Spirit dwells in you doesn't mean that you won't sin. You are pinning your sin on God. That is blasphemy.
3. A sin and a sin unto death.
First there are sins, such as getting angry as I did by DHK saying I called Christ a liar and have to repent of such so I certainly am glad we have and advocate with God. There are many sins, so I will quote this one again if you will forgive me for it explains the weakness of the flesh where there is sin.
Romans, chapter 7:18-25
3 a. Sin unto death.
Romans, chapter 6:16-20
Now all sin is unto death unless you repent of them but there are some sins you can’t repent of...
Now lets just take one of those sins which adultery and if we are forgiven and paid by the blood of Christ then it is not
against us anymore and then being saved we don’t do those thing anymore for God said I will make a new covenant, I will put
my laws in their hearts and write them in their minds. I don’t believe in falling from Grace for we are kept by the power of God
but God felt it necessary to put scripture in the Bible if someone did fall and its as follows:
Heb. 6:4-6
Now, lets go back to the adultery which was a sin unto death but we were forgiven of it and saved but according to the above
scripture if we go back to that life style we have put God to an open shame and the blood of Jesus that was applied to our
soul and wash us clean we have wasted it, cast it to the ground and spit on it. So therefore according to God it is impossible
to renew such a one to repentance again. ( that also is a sin unto death).
Now, this is my understand of God’s Holy word. I didn’t receive this overnight but I have been at this for going on 35 years. I
have given my life to the Lord and His word. I will be held accountable for what I have just posted but I am willing to die on
it. God Bless and Amen,
Who made you the arbiter that adultery is a sin unto death? From where in the Scripture do you get that? From that theology I guess that David would be in Hell today, along with the woman caught in adultery that Jesus forgave.
The fact is that Jesus forgives.
He forgives all sin, any sin, and there is no sin that is too great for him that He cannot forgive. He saves to the uttermost--that is to the very extreme.
Too many people are confused about "a sin unto death."
The death being spoken of is physical death.
The sin is not any specific sin that is mentioned, but perhaps a sinful lifestyle that is bringing shame to the name of Christ.
The subject of the one committing the sin, is a brother--that is a believer, one who is born again.
It is possible that if a believer carries on in a lifestyle that brings shame to the name of Christ, that God will cut him off physically. He will bring about circumstances that will cause his death. Other Scripture that harmonize with this is the chastening hand of God described in Heb.12. The sin of Annanias and Sapphira that resulted in death, and the abuse of the Lord's Supper by the Corinthian believers that resulted in death (see 1Cor.11:30).
"For this cause some among you are sick, and weak, and some of you sleep" (are dead).
God judges sin. Any sin, if one persists in it long enough, can be a sin unto death.
