Not under Law --Under Grace!

[Brother Bob]

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

Was wondering if this is the ear of the outward man?

 

[D28guy]

same

"Amen, Brother Bob

And that is my point. One who commits willfull sin just prior to death and never repents proved himself to have had that in his or her heart all along. The true nature of the pig, the dog, the tree bearing the fruit."

What if someone, on their death bed, worries a bit just befrore dying. The same God who said, for example, "you shall not commit adultery" also said "Do not worry".

So, if someone worries a bit before dying, and doesnt repent of the sin of worrying, do they enter the flames of hell for worrying?

Mike

 

[Diggin in da Word]

D28,

I believe that God will convict the one who truly is His and that one will repent.

A brief thought, if not entertained, is not sin, but only a temptation. We deal with those daily.

God's Spirit will convict of sin... His Word tells us that.

 

[Brother Bob]

kinda hard to put "worring" in the same category as adultery don't you think. Anyway, I would never say what someone did on their death bed unless they died in the very act of adultery which has happened and I believe that person is lost.

 

[D28guy]

Diggin,

"I believe that God will convict the one who truly is His and that one will repent. "

But what if they dont? What if they die in the midst of having a bit of worry? Almighty God clearly tells us "Do not worry".

So if they die while in the willful act of worrying...thats un-repented of sin...do they enter the flames of hell for that?

Mike

 

[Brother Bob]

where is that scripture "do not worry"?

 

[Claudia_T]

where is that scripture "do not worry"?

I think this passage is telling us not to worry, Bob... how do you see it?

Luke 12:
22: And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23: The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24: Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25: And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26: If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27: Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28: If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29: And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30: For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31: But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Amy.G]

A man is a man is a man. You cannot make a false dichotomy by splitting man into outward and inward man. You refer to the resurrection, and certainly our "outward man" or flesh will rise again. But will it rise without the spirit, without the soul? Will it be just a glorified corpse without any life in it at all? You cannot dissect inward from outward. This temporal fleshly body that we have must always house that inward spirit and mind which causes the body to sin.

DHK, I usually agree with you, but this doesn't make sense to me. The body houses the spirit only while it is alive on this earth, but once it dies the body is left behind to rot while the spirit goes to be with the Lord. Therefore, at death the 2 separate. Thus it would seem that the flesh and the spirit are at war, as Paul says, and that is why one is able to sin and the other is not. At the resurrection the spirit and the glorified body (perfect and incorruptible) unite. But, maybe I've got it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Amy.G]

Claudia is right. Especially this verse:

25: And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

 

[D28guy]

Matthew 6:25...

"Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life..."

Matthew 6:31...

"Therefore do not worry..."

Mike

 

[Brother Bob]

I think this passage is telling us not to worry, Bob... how do you see it?

Luke 12:
22: And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23: The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24: Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25: And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26: If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27: Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28: If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29: And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30: For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31: But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I guess you could consider it "not to worry" but I always took it to mean "confort" that He will take care of us. I guess the two go hand in hand. I find it hard to call it sin though.

 

[Brother Bob]

25: Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26: Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27: Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28: And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30: Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

again, I take it as Jesus telling us how He will take care of us. I find it hard to call it sin unless it would be doubting then it would be sin.

 

[D28guy]

Brother Bob,

"I guess you could consider it "not to worry" but I always took it to mean "confort" that He will take care of us. I guess the two go hand in hand. I find it hard to call it sin though."

Hard to call it sin? God specifically tells us not to do it.

God says "Do not commit adultery" and its sin if we do, and God tells us "Do not worry", but its not sin if we do?

You believe that if we disobey God its not sin?

Mike

 

[Amy.G]

Helloooo Before this thread gets off in yet another direction, would someone please read my post? #148. Did I get it right?
Thank you :saint:

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Sin is the transgression of the Law. If God says 'Thou shalt not,' then you'd better not.

Doubting is sin. 'Whatsoever is not of faith is sin'.

 

[Brother Bob]

DHK, I usually agree with you, but this doesn't make sense to me. The body houses the spirit only while it is alive on this earth, but once it dies the body is left behind to rot while the spirit goes to be with the Lord. Therefore, at death the 2 separate. Thus it would seem that the flesh and the spirit are at war, as Paul says, and that is why one is able to sin and the other is not. At the resurrection the spirit and the glorified body (perfect and incorruptible) unite. But, maybe I've got it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. __________________

Right on Amy....... :jesus:

 

[Diggin in da Word]

DHK, I usually agree with you, but this doesn't make sense to me. The body houses the spirit only while it is alive on this earth, but once it dies the body is left behind to rot while the spirit goes to be with the Lord. Therefore, at death the 2 separate. Thus it would seem that the flesh and the spirit are at war, as Paul says, and that is why one is able to sin and the other is not. At the resurrection the spirit and the glorified body (perfect and incorruptible) unite. But, maybe I've got it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

The spirit and the body do separate at death. The body in the casket is just an empty shell. We are promised that at the resurrection that the Lord Himself will descend with a shout, with the voice of the archangel. But if we back up a few verses, we do indeed see that He does bring those who sleep (dead in Christ) with Him.

Our bodies will be reunited with our spirits, and yes, we will have glorified bodies, for we shall see Christ as He is... glorified.

 

[D28guy]

Amy,

I thought your post 148 was excellant. Very good.

But I dont think you and DHK are really contradicting each other. I believe he is adressing it from a different context.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Amy.G]

Thanks guys! :1_grouphug:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Amy G:
"Therefore, at death the 2 separate. Thus it would seem that the flesh and the spirit are at war, as Paul says, and that is why one is able to sin and the other is not. At the resurrection the spirit and the glorified body (perfect and incorruptible) unite. But, maybe I've got it wrong. It wouldn't be the first time."

GE:
This time you've got it wrong again; but never mind, you're right in spirit!

It is not "the flesh and the spirit (that) are at war" as you say, but as Paul says and means, it is the old man - us, by nature - and the new man - the Spirit of God who indwells us as the 'new man' - that are at war. Our body does not re-unite with the Holy Spirit in the resurrection, but by the Holy Spirit, is recreated a glorified, incorruptable, I and you.