Now that Muhammed is guilty by jury, we need a hangin'.

[Jim1999]

Don't go crying the next time an American is killed in a Muslim country for violating THEIR laws, which call for capital punishment.

I will not be responsible for the taking of human life, and it is NOT scriptural. It is a legal, state matter and a state can stop it as much as it uses it.

Start stoning children who refuse to obey,,that is biblical, isn't it?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Start stoning children who refuse to obey,,that is biblical, isn't it?

No, it isn't. It was back when the O.C. ruled the nation of Israel.

Christ instituted the N.C. which rules believers, not political nations.

Christ and Paul did affirm though that it is the right of the government to take the life of the guilty.

If you weren't a covenant theolog, you wouldn't be confused...

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Don't go crying the next time an American is killed in a Muslim country for violating THEIR laws, which call for capital punishment.

I won't cry. Believing in Christ constitutes capital punishment for them. Those political leaders will be judged accordingly. They are responsible though for how they determine capital punishment.

 

[mozier]

I believe that there is something in the natural law that makes a rational person believe that if one deliberately and without just cause takes an innocent life, then that person's life is forfeited as payment for the innocent's life lost.

However, the means by which the state in our modern society determines this is so flawed that it is not best to not apply the death penalty in this day and age.

I have no doubt that there are many despiscable convicts who deserve to die for their horrible crimes. However, there are also others who have been shown to be innocent of the crimes by which they were convicted, some long after the fact. As well, there is a blantant disparity in the application of the death penalty, as it is unevenly distributed to minorities and the poor, yet the rich can "get off" by having the best attorneys money can buy. As well, certain politically ambitious DA's have been known to "forget" evidence in order to win re-election.

In addition to all this, those convicted get to endlessly appeal to the ends of the earth, and they drain much-needed funds by doing this. Meanwhile, they get to be on Good Morning America and get books written about them, making them become celebrities with copycats and desperate women wanting to marry them. This is too much.

Therefore, I believe that the death penalty, even in the case of Mr. Muhammed, is not the solution. The way the system is now, he will exploit it as much as it can be exploited, and we may well all be raptured and the antichrist come and gone before they ever get around to executing him.

No, life in prison, with no possibility of parole AND no Diane Sawyer would be the ideal punishment.

(Wow! Is the Mr. Mozier talking???? Mr. Right-Wing, Rush Limbaugh-listening Republican??? Yes, it is. Surprised?)


mozier

 

[newlady3203]

I work for a close custody prison. Who ever thought that keeping an inmate housed in prison for the rest of his natural life is cheaper than putting him to death is certainly wrong. In this particular prison we have four units. Each unit has two cell blocks. Each cell block has two televisions. We have 635 inmates of whom most will never see the light of day outside of the fences. Each cell block has a recreation yard. Each yard has a basketball court, a volleyball court and a weight lifting area. They have softball tournaments. We have a gymnasium that has ping pong tables, pool tables, a huge rear projection televison, game tables, card tables and indoor weightlifting equipment. They get the best of medical care. All of their medications are name brand. They get the best dental care (right on site). We clothe them with 1-2 changes of clothes per day. They get three hot meals per day. They have regular religious services. They can get their GED, or earn an associates degree. All of these things we, the taxpayer, pay for. These ingrates live better then some people on the outside I know. Oh, I forgot that they can earn money for their trust funds while they are in here to buy special things for themselves. They have access to soda and snack machines besides getting their meals. My person feeling is that any person who has been given life without the possibility of parole should be put to death. I can think of many better places to spend my tax money.

 

[LadyEagle]

I also fail to see how Christ affirmed capital punishment. Scriptures?

The two people on either side of Jesus Christ at the crucifixion died from capital punishment by the Roman government for their crimes - albeit, a very painful, long, agonizing, torturous form of death. If you read Roman history, you will find crucifixion was quite common and thousands of crucifixions were conducted and bodies were allowed to decay and rot on the crosses as birds and other animals picked the bones. Our government is humane in exercising capital punishment. The murderer is given sedatives and snoozes off to death, feeling no pain. We are merciful to the merciless.

This terrorist who snuffed out innocent victims who never had a chance to see the bullet coming, needs to be put to death and swiftly. The deviousness and evil of his plot, even to altering the automobile so he could pick off his victims like a real live video game is just appalling. He held a nation under terror. Even now, people think about it every time they pump gas.

He got a fair trial. But he didn't give his victims a fair trial. He didn't give his victims even a fighting chance.

And his fellow Muslim terrorists don't give anyone fair trials, either.

Has anyone seen the murder video of Daniel Pearl's decapitation? It's on the internet and quite gruesome. No fairness, no trial, just out and out murder. Such is the way of these terrorists.

Perhaps some of you would feel differently if you had been walking out of Home Depot with someone you love, and your wife's, mom's, sister's, daughter's, or girlfriend's blood and brain tissue were splattered all over your face.

 

[timothy 1769]

God can and does execute murders through human governments. But born again believers, followers of Jesus Christ, are called to act differently:

Matthew 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

[doug_mmm]

Helen,
Can I just say how much I respect your posts for their clarity of thinking , conciseness and relevance. I've been on many boards and your posts are always a pleasure to read ( even if you disagree with me ! ).

Keep up the good work.

Yes I agree with you here, the death penalty is appropriate and warrented. As you say the appeals will go on for years.

 

[TWade]

Greeting brothers and sisters.

When Jesus told Peter "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." was He in fact affirming the death penatly?

I offer the following view for your consideration:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-A-13.htm

The above is from The Bible Bulletin Board run by Tony Capoccia. The question of capital punishment is answered by John MacArthur.

 

[Helen]

Doug, thank you. As long as any disagreements we may have are intelligent and thoughtful, I think there should be no problem and we both may be encouraged to think more.

Now, to the thread:

About the idea of a child being stoned, that is not what Exodus 21 is talking about. We did a study on this here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=43;t=000083
Verse 17 has caused great confusion, for it states that anyone who “curses” his father or mother must be put to death. Back to the Concordance. The word translated “curse” means to cause others to think evil of the parents. This implies a deliberate and repeated series of slanderous and horrible statements about the parents for the purpose of others thinking poorly of them. It is THIS the Bible commands capital punishment for, not swearing at one’s parents! Is there an age limit here? Considering that few teens think well of their parents and we all make allowances for that, it is much more likely that this command had to do with grown offspring and not youngsters! A teen talking badly about his or her parents is more or less expected in almost every society! People do not take them seriously, so it would be very difficult for a teen to cause others to think evil of his or her parents. Not impossible, but very difficult to say the least. It is far more likely that a respected grown man could cause great harm to his parents’ reputation and name by speaking evil of them, and thus causing others to think evil of them. This is the crime punishable by death in Exodus.

In the meantime, the death penalty is not only biblical, it is commanded!

When used for murder, as commanded to ALL men inasmuch as it was commanded to Noah, here are some of the advantages:

1. Justice is satisfied
2. There is some sense of closure for the victim's family.
3. Costs are minimal to society monetarily
4. Those who have murdered once (not manslaughter or crime of passion, but first degree, premeditated murder), have done something inside themselves to cause their hearts to be so hardened to the preciousness of human life, that they may be much more capable of murdering again in the future. Thus executing them prevents this from happening.
5. Fellow prisoners will not be accosted by those who have commited murder and not influenced by them.
6. An example will have been set to all thinking about commiting that same crime.

Recidivism among executed murderers is 0%.

 

[Daniel David]

Grace1998, that is the passage I was talking about. I was just hoping that certain folks checked the word for their answer first.

 

[doug_mmm]

Helen,

You have my admiration as an intelligent and Godly lady. Your last post was a well reasoned analysis. Keep up the good work.

 

[doug_mmm]

PS Helen, thanx for that I always wondered about that particular passage !

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by post-it:
I vote we send him to Federal Prison for life. Its cheaper, easier and is a real form of punishment.

Cheaper? What economic scale are you using?

Okay, feeding, housing, clothing, and guarding a guy for the rest of his life is cheaper than the following:


verrrrrrrry unlikely Post-it. </font>[/QUOTE]Due to our legal system of appeals and all the extras they spend on death row inmates it is a fact that it is more expensive to kill them rather than to put them into the main population of a prison system. These are agreed upon figures in every State.

So yes, it is cheaper to punish them with life terms behind bars.

 

[gb93433]

I have a friend who is a lawyer who has represented several on death row. What he has told me would curl your skin. He has told me about lawyers coming to trial half drunk. They were supposed to represent the accused for a small fee. On one occasion I was talking with him about the issue of the death penalty. I asked him, "Has there ever been a time when you believed the person you were reprenting was actually innocent. Not that you just got them off the hook." He told me, "Yes." Those people were on death row and falsely accused. He has told me about lawyers just trying to get convictions at any cost and even at the expense of misrepresentation.

Another time he told me that it costs the state more money to execute a person than to hold them for life in prison because of all the appeals.

I asked my friend about getting a lawyer removed from practice for coming to court half drunk. He told me it's much like the good ol' boy system.

It is not always about justice but about numbers of convictions at any cost. I just wouldn't want it to be me.

We know there are people falsely accused in prison. It happens a lot more than we would like to admit. How would you like to be one of those? Some of those who have been executed in the past have actually been innocent.

Are you in favor of the death penalty with that kind of justice system for those accused of such crimes?

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Helen:

In Genesis 9, long before the Ten Commandments were written in stone BY HIM, God commanded the death penalty for murder and gave the reason why: because man is made in the image of God.

He also commanded that we kill people who disrespect their parents.

Does that mean we should throw away the New Testament teachings of Jesus and follow the old law? I think not.

Jesus came to fulfill the law which means we are given a chance to escape the law and its penalty. If this is not the case, then the cross means nothing.

For too long I have heard Christians misuse the this verse where it seems like Jesus is keeping the law intact, but that is NOT what he said, in fact he only says he FULFILLS the law. He didn't address whether the law ended for Christians or not. We know it didn't end for the Jews or non-Christians. But for us, it ended. Sin is now explained in our hearts not on a stone tablet.

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by post-it:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:

In Genesis 9, long before the Ten Commandments were written in stone BY HIM, God commanded the death penalty for murder and gave the reason why: because man is made in the image of God.

He also commanded that we kill people who disrespect their parents.

Does that mean we should throw away the New Testament teachings of Jesus and follow the old law? I think not.

Jesus came to fulfill the law which means we are given a chance to escape the law and its penalty. If this is not the case, then the cross means nothing.

For too long I have heard Christians misuse the this verse where it seems like Jesus is keeping the law intact, but that is NOT what he said, in fact he only says he FULFILLS the law. He didn't address whether the law ended for Christians or not. We know it didn't end for the Jews or non-Christians. But for us, it ended. Sin is now explained in our hearts not on a stone tablet. </font>[/QUOTE]Post-it:
1. I already posted the Bible study done on that business of the parents in this thread. Suggest you read it.

2. Jesus did fulfill the law. This means that we will not be judged by the law if we are found in Him. However He also made it EXTRMELY plain that not the slightest mark of the pen's worth of change would be added to or taken away from the law. Therefore the law stands. And the only reason any of us can stand is if we are in Christ and He in us.

3. If sin were only 'explained in our hearts' then we would be falling for the Satanic temptation used for all men: "think for yourself! How do you FEEL about it? Nevermind what that silly Old Testament says. Things are different now."

Please read Matthew 5:18.

And then read the next verse, verse 19, and think again about what you are saying in some of your posts, Post-it.

 

[Ben W]

Why is it that we dont have Slavery any more?

Beacause it is wrong and a horrible way to treat people.

Yet the Bible doesnt tell Christians to go out and oppose it, we just went out and did it as a matter of moral conciousness.

For all of those who call for the death penalty, why do you want that to happen? is is really about justice or is it about Revenge? Revenge is without doubt Sinfull.

Moses Killed an Egyptian and he was not given the death penalty for it. In fact he was later used by God in a mighty way.

Cain did not get the Death Penalty for murdering Abel and God even marked him so that it could not happen.

We are saved by Grace through Jesus Christ. A natural response to that is for us to show grace likewise. If the state effects Capital Punishment then they have cut off any chance of that person accepting Jesus Christ as there saviour. As soon as that button is pressed, any opportunity is lost, and there are many people that live to regret what they have done and give it over to the Holy Spirit by accepting Jesus Christ as an elderly person.

It is proven that it costs more to do Capital Punishment, and it is the case that there are many people that the legal system fails who are actually innocent. Rueben Hurricane Carter for an example. Hence I dont think that Capital Punishment is the answer. How would you feel if it was you that was falsley accused? How about if it was because you were a Christian like what happens in Countries overseas?

 

[AllenLim]

Scott,

I'm no expert, but I believe that there were many levitical laws which proclaimed a death sentence for various crimes.

As such, we can see that God himself has no problem in taking a life... as long as it conforms to the given authority (Government).

As for public excutions, I'm not for it... Don't see any need to go see someone die.

 

[Shiloh]

You won't get much support on this board for capital punishment!