Now that Muhammed is guilty by jury, we need a hangin'.

[pinoybaptist]

Capital Punishment is meant to flush society's vermin down the drain, not to deter crime. Even if there were a law saying that police could shoot a murderer immediately upon capture, there will still be murderers like Muhammad.
Now, another possibility for these two vermin would be life without possibility of parole in a super maximum prison where they are under lock and key five days a week alone in their cells with a perpetually lit bulb in their rooms. No contact at all with other prisoners, no contact with guards, except in very, very rare occassions. The knowledge that they are going to live the rest of their natural lives that way will hopefully drive them nuts, especially Malvo.

 

[HankD]

Seriously, why is it that the U.S is the only Anglo Saxon country still doing Capital Punishment?

What are the "anglo saxon" countries?
Let us assume Great Britain, Canada, Australia.

Strange that the death of the guilty is forbidden in these "anglo saxon" countries but not the death of the innocent (Abortion).

HankD

 

[Ben W]

Anglo Saxon - any country settled and developed by Europeans.

All have evolved over a similar pattern of years, yet all have stopped Capital Punishment except for the U.S. I should point out though that there are several states in the U.S that do not support Capital Punishment.

Why did the U.S stop Slavery? It does not say to do that in the Bible, but it happened anyway because many Christians recognised it as wrong and barbaric, just like many Christians that have come to the same conclusion re Capital Punishment. Over history, how many were executed on death row in the U.S that were innocent?

 

[Daniel David]

If capital punishment was wrong and barbaric, then God ordered people to sin. It isn't sin though. If it was sin pre-law, then it is always sin.

It is how God determined the wicked to be punished.

I say we go back to the O.T. ways. Lets have a stoning. Yeah, that would curb rape, child molesting, murder, etc.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Why did the U.S stop Slavery? It does not say to do that in the Bible, but it happened anyway because many Christians recognised it as wrong and barbaric, just like many Christians that have come to the same conclusion re Capital Punishment.

Big logical and biblical fallacy here. To stop slavery was not a violation of the biblical command of God. To stop capital punishment would be.

To call capital punishment "wrong and barbaric" is to call God wrong and barbaric. That is simply unacceptable for one who claims to love him and follow him.

Secondly, to fail to carry out capital punishment where warranted is to devalue human life and to devalue the image of God. Capital punishment was not instituted by man as man's way of revenge. It was instituted by God as a protection for the image of God in man (Gen 9:6). To disregard that command is to tell God that his image in man really doesn't matter.

Once again, I find myself completely amazed that people who claim to love God and follow him disregard a command that is so basic and clear. This is not an issue about which there are multiple interpretations that might be found. This is cut and dried. What happened that made us smarter and more loving than God???????

Over history, how many were executed on death row in the U.S that were innocent?

None that we know of.

 

[LadyEagle]

Fox News just in: Jury rules for death penalty. Judge can overturn to lesser sentence, however.

 

[LadyEagle]

Now this is sad...

A Louisiana native
The 6-foot-1-inch Muhammad, also known as John Allen Williams, was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, on December 31, 1960, to Ernest Edward Williams and Eva Ferris, an Antiguan by birth. He grew up in Baton Rouge and married Carol Williams in 1981. The couple had one son but divorced in 1985, and Williams got custody of their son, Travis.

His conversion from a Baptist to a Muslim occurred around this time, but Muhammad only legally changed his name from Williams last year. He is a member of the Nation of Islam.

---From CNN

Sad.

 

[Watchman]

Sad indeed LadyEagle, but when I see this I think of:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us..." 1John 2:19
He may have been a professed Baptist, but there was no love of Jesus in his heart.
He was not (pardon the language), A "Use-to-wuz", but a, "Never-wuz."
Just like the Jews of Jesus' day, who wanted to murder the Lord Jesus:
"Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye shall do."

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
He is a member of the Nation of Islam.

FYI - The nation of Islam is not a mainline Muslim organization. The organization Nation of Islam is to mainline Islam what the KKK is to Christianity. For example, you must be black to be a member of the N of I. White, Asian, and Latino Muslims are forbidden from joining.

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Anglo Saxon - any country settled and developed by Europeans.

Italy is an European nation... but it is not Anglo-Saxon.

Spain is an European nation... but it is not Anglo-Saxon.

Portugal is an European nation... but it is not Anglo-Saxon.

Romania is an European nation... but it is not Anglo-Saxon.

The Angles and the Saxons are from the British Isles and their ancestry traces back to Germanic origins. Needless to say that not all European nations are composed of Anglo-Saxons.

All have evolved over a similar pattern of years, yet all have stopped Capital Punishment except for the U.S. I should point out though that there are several states in the U.S that do not support Capital Punishment.

There was a reason why the U.S. broke away from our European Overlords. It was because we did not agree with the way they chose to govern their citizens.

By what line of reasoning do you arrive at the conclusion that European governments are the most wise, most correct, etc. and therefore should be emulated by all other nations? You are sounding a bit Ethnocentric.

 

[Ben W]

Europenan governments being the most wise, correct etc? I have never stated that at any point in this discussion, to assume that is to attempt to put words into my mouth.

The reason that I use the comparison, is that many of these countries were settled at a similar time in history and share a similar level of evolution of political ideology.

Anyway I did some research on the Death Penalty, and what I discovered was far different from the attitude that is displayed here of being in favour of Capital Punishment.

12 States do not have the Death Penalty at all.

A further 6 States have the Death Penalty but have never actually used it.

Interestingly in a number of states that have the Death Penalty it is under monatorium, in one state 167 prisioners have been commited to life sentances without parole by the governor.

Support for the Death Penalty over Life imprisionment without parole is falling dramtically to under 50% in a number of states.

Illnois has moves underway to repel the death Penalty altogether.

Often when reading threads on the BB you can get the idea that something that is championed as popular like the Death Penalty is a commonly held view in the U.S. Looks like that is not actually the case.

Pastor Larry, I object to your assumption that I supposedly love God, yet disregard His commands. The fact is that there are instances in scripture where it was not served, when Moses murdered the Egyptian for one. I dont care for your judgemnet of me personally here, when the Bible states clearly in Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye not be judged".

 

[Jim1999]

Ben, not to trouble when you are criticized or judged by an American. Consider it an honour.

I stand firm with you on capital punishment, and I don't believe the scripture teaches it at all. Why are so many open to minute nuances, but ignore te major teachings? There are none so blind as those who will not see.

It must be noted that a great discussion went on about where this chap should be tried and Virginia was chosen BECAUSE it could inflict the death penalty. Surprize! Surprise! He got it.

These people are fast to condemn other countries when they use a capital punishment on American citizens! That should tell you something.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Europenan governments being the most wise, correct etc? I have never stated that at any point in this discussion, to assume that is to attempt to put words into my mouth.

Nope... Sorry Ben that is not what I was trying to do. It just appeared to me that you were attempting to hold the European governments up as an example of more "evolved" i.e. better, more sophisticated systems. As if the U.S. was behind in the evolutionary curve or something. My point is that just because the majority of European countries do not use the death penalty does not mean that they are right or as far as Christians are concerned that they are biblical.

Regarding your research America may be considered a "Christian" nation; however, we are but a moon cast shadow of what we once were. Liberal theology and liberal politics have driven this nation far from being considered as a biblical "Christian" nation. Yet, there are those of us who still strive to be biblical.

 

[LadyEagle]

FYI - The nation of Islam is not a mainline Muslim organization.

John, the point was not, I repeat, not about the Nation of Islam. Sorry you can't see what the sad point is.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Pastor Larry, I object to your assumption that I supposedly love God, yet disregard His commands. The fact is that there are instances in scripture where it was not served, when Moses murdered the Egyptian for one. I dont care for your judgemnet of me personally here, when the Bible states clearly in Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye not be judged".

I am sorry you object to it. I am not the one who said it. That was original with John the Apostle. Not knowing you, perhaps you have good intentions. That is fine.

But on this matter, Gen 9:6 is clear. We need to struggle with it. There are exceptions to be sure. But so what??? That is not the point.

And you misuse Matt 7:1. The point is unjust judgment or judgment by different standards. If I ever murder someone, I deserve the death penalty. I am willing to be judged by the same standard with which I judge, which is in that part right after the part you quoted. Don't misuse Scripture ...

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Ben, not to trouble when you are criticized or judged by an American. Consider it an honour.

I think you should keep your silly nationalist comments to yourself. That has no place here on this board. I remember a time not that long ago when you got bent out of shape because someone had the audacity to comment on a disputed point about Winston Churchill. You yelled very loud against that person ... and then turn around and say something like this. That is very inconsistent on your part.

The reality is that this should not be about nations. It should be about the Bible and what God has said.

I stand firm with you on capital punishment, and I don't believe the scripture teaches it at all.

Then what does Gen 9:6 mean?? In all of your complaining, you have yet to open the Scriptures and tell us what you think it means.

Why are so many open to minute nuances, but ignore te major teachings? There are none so blind as those who will not see.

I agree. And I would refer you to Matt 7 that was pointed out above. When you condemn me as being blind and ignoring major teachings, you must judge yourself by that same standard. You have indeed cast out a speck while keeping your own log.

These people are fast to condemn other countries when they use a capital punishment on American citizens! That should tell you something.

What it should tell you (if this is the case) that we trust our own system of justice much more than we trust other nations system of justice. Pretty simple when you think about it, isn't it??

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Ben, not to trouble when you are criticized or judged by an American. Consider it an honour.

These people are fast to condemn other countries when they use a capital punishment on American citizens! That should tell you something.

Cheers,

Jim

How insulting!

Diane

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
John, the point was not, I repeat, not about the Nation of Islam. Sorry you can't see what the sad point is.

No need to take offense. I wasn't trying to make a point. Just giving out an FYI, since the organization "Nation of Islam" was mentioned. Many people are not aware of the N of I.

 

[Ben W]

Exodus 2:11-12 - And it came to pass in those days when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting a Hebrew, one of his brethren. And when he looked this way and that way, and he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

Moses was obvioulsy well aware that what he had done was wrong, to look first and see if anyone was watching, then to go and hide the body first. that actually makes it Premeditated murder.

So why did God not require his life, if that is Gods standard in Scripture. Why was it that in spite of the premeditated murder that he had commited that God showed him grace?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Ben W:
So why did God not require his life, if that is Gods standard in Scripture. Why was it that in spite of the premeditated murder that he had commited that God showed him grace?

The obvious reason is because he is God. He also took delight in the bruising of his Son, and ordained his murder. That doesn't mean we get to do the same. You cannot confuse your mind with God's. When he gives a command, we are to follow it.