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NT Canon

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Bluefalcon, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    God came to the conclusion that Peter did write 2 Peter.

    2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
     
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Some Christian scholarship is quite pitiful too. Some Christians do not use the Holy Spirit but rather their own Spirit. Just because someone is a believer does not make them exempt from lapses of scholarship and obedience to the commands of scripture. Just read your Bible and see how many failed God–the majority.
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Who was Peter's amanuensis?
     
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Most of the time Paul did not write his own work but simply signed some of it by saying he was writing it with "his own hand." Yet the letter was from Paul and written by another. Much in the same way a secretary might write a letter for the manager to someone.
     
  5. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    No rational human being who is familiar with the Greek texts of 1 Peter and 2 Peter would conclude that they were both written by the same author without the intervention of another human writer. No where in the Bible does it say or imply that God dictated the Scriptures to human beings who wrote down the words. If that was the case, however, for 1 Peter and 2 Peter, God went way out of His way to make it expressly clear to everyone that the Bible is not His inspired word. Personally, I do not believe that God wrote 2 Peter to make Himself appear to be a liar and a deceiver.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    No rational human being who is familiar with the Greek texts of 1 Peter and 2 Peter would conclude that they were both written by the same author without the intervention of another human writer. No where in the Bible does it say or imply that God dictated the Scriptures to human beings who wrote down the words. If that was the case, however, for 1 Peter and 2 Peter, God went way out of His way to make it expressly clear to everyone that the Bible is not His inspired word. Personally, I do not believe that God wrote 2 Peter to make Himself appear to be a liar and a deceiver.

    [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]Craigbythesea, Yes I am all too familiar with the Greek texts for both the Epistles by Peter, where there is some difference in the style and grammar. But, are you supposing that on this basis we conclude that Peter is not the author of the second Epistle? I very much question your judgement and motive.

    You see, it was on these errors, that the liberal scholars questioned whether Isaiah wrote the complete book by himself, or if there were three different authors. The unity of the book of Isaiah, has been proven by the fact that the highest authority, Jesus Christ, reffered to the whole book as "Isaiah". Secondly, as to its grammar and style, Dr O T Allis, and Dr Edward J Young, two brilliant scholars of the Old Testament, have shown beyond any doubt that Isaiah as a whole is the work of a single person, the prophet.

    Likewise, with the long ending of Mark's Gospel, as found in the KJV, where the grammar and style again is different to the rest of the Gospel. This too has been proven beyond any doubt by another brilliant scholar, Dr John Burgon, in his work on this very subject. The work is over 100 years old, and has never been disproven!

    You see, firstly, the Epistle starts with the name of Peter. Then we have the testimony of the early Church fathers, who at the very early time said that the apostle Peter was its author, though some noted that this was disputed, but nonetheless admitted by the majority that it was Peter's work.

    Craig, I don't know you, but would appeal to you to please consider where you are going with all of this. Because what you are doing, is questioning a part of the NT which beyond any doubt is the infallable, inerrant Word of Almighty God. Also, by posting here, you would probably cause others to start questioning the authority of Scripture. Please be very careful. I can give you a very good example as a warning. Dr Clark Pinnock, wrote articles in the 1960's on the authority and infallibiblty of Scripture, showing that the Bible is indeed to be trusted in everything that it says. In the 1970's he wrote again on this subject, but this time showing that there were things in the Bible, like Science, history, etc, that were not accurate, no doubt influenced by Dr Daniel Fuller, who was a leading liberal at that time. It only got wrose for Pinnock, as he now teaches that "God does not know all of the future". How can this God, Who Himself does not know the future, promise us eternal life, as He does not know what is going to happen? Do you see the magnitude of the problem? This sort of heresy makes God out to be a liar. PLEASE quit questioning the Authority, Infallibility, Inerrancy of the Word of God, as I am very sure that it will destroy your soul. Yes, it is VERY serious.
     
  7. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Icthus wrote,

    I have the very large majority of New Testament scholars in my camp, you don’t. If you believe that the honest investigation and interpretation of the facts is sin, that is your privilege.

    If you have studied this matter, you know that what you have posted here is contrary to fact. If you have not studied this matter, I personally believe that you have both the moral and the ethical responsibility to do so before continuing to post on this matter.

    If you have studied this matter, you know that what you have posted here is contrary to fact. If you have not studied this matter, I personally believe that you have both the moral and the ethical responsibility to do so before continuing to post on this matter.

    Have you made no study whatsoever of the Greek text of the first verse of this epistle? Are you totally unaware of the textual issues involved and their implications?

    This, too, is a distortion of the facts. Either you have not carefully and objectively studied the response of the early Church fathers, or you are willfully distorting the facts.

    I personally believe the New Testament documents are of such importance that it behooves the scholars of those documents to honest, fairly, objectively, and prayerfully consider all the relevant facts without making prejudgments.

    It is my personal opinion that it is a most grievous sin against God to fail to question what men have told us regarding the “Authority, Infallibility, Inerrancy of the Word of God.” And most certainly those who are guilty of this sin are responsible for the damnation of many who would otherwise have found the Gospel and the Christian faith to be worthy of prayerful consideration. God has NOT told us who wrote 2 Peter, and those who believe that He has are, in my personal opinion, delusional. The Bible is much too precious to treat it like an old worn-out rag doll, however affectionately we may love that rag doll.

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  8. Bluefalcon

    Bluefalcon Member

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    Wasn't it Bigg who said there is no NT book more like 1 Peter as 2 Peter. Others, like Eta Linnemann, have shown that using German methods of cataloging differences, it may be shown by comparing Galatians with Romans that Paul could not have written some chapters of Romans. Many of these methods are the same used to "disprove" the notion of the same author being behind both 1 Peter and 2 Peter. As I've said before, any critical reasons for rejecting Petrine authorship of 2 Peter have been answered by conservative evangelical scholarship. The majority of those who reject Petrine authorship of 2 Peter would not classify themselves as "conservative evangelical scholars"; likewise the vast majority of those who hold to Petrine authorship of 2 Peter would classify themselves as "conservative evangelical scholars". It is hard to believe Craigbythesea's overly bellicose disagreement to this assessment.

    Yours, Bluefalcon
     
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