Number saved at Pentecost

[Baptist Believer]

It is an interesting subject - but not one to split a church over. - (or is it? :smilewinkgrin

I think the color of the carpeting is a more important issue to divide over.

 

[Iconoclast]

PreachTony

As Paul wrote that we must hear the gospel preached, then believe on Christ, and call on His name to be saved, and Calvinism states that only the Elect are saved,

The bible teaches that only those elected by God are saved...Calvinists just believe the bible on this.

since babies lack the ability to believe on Christ after hearing the preached gospel,

All persons lack the ability to believe because of the noetic effects of the fall.

and lack the ability to call on His name, is it safe to say that all babies who die in infancy are not Elect, and therefore hellbound?

While all persons who are conceived are guilty having sinned in Adam...and do deserve hell......God in mercy has elected a multitude to be the objects of His mercy.

is it safe to say that all babies who die in infancy are not Elect, and therefore hellbound?

why would it be "safe to say" this? This question itself is based on a wrong understanding or lack of understanding of biblical election as you seek to insert mans ability , or lack of ability as the deciding factor.

as far as dying infants the confession of faith leaves the question safely in God's hands and cannot be improved upon;

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

 

[Darrell C]

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

Okay, a question I would like to pose in light of the above statement: were the Old Testament saints born again during their lifetimes, and if not, was it a necessity that they be, as the infant here is implied to be, before they came into God's presence?

And this assumes saints went to Sheol/Hades when they died, rather than Heaven.


God bless.

 

[PreachTony]

The bible teaches that only those elected by God are saved...Calvinists just believe the bible on this.

Paraphrased, "Non-Calvinists don't really believe the Bible."

All persons lack the ability to believe because of the noetic effects of the fall.

So people lack the ability to believe and obey God. Yet God offers commandments, and corresponding punishments for failure to keep said commandments, even though He knows man is incapable of keeping them. According to the Calvinist theology I've heard here, man cannot even repent without God giving him the ability to repent. Yet God commands all men everywhere to repent. Does this not stand at odds against the revealed character and nature of God in the scriptures? Through Moses, God tells the people "...this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. (Deut 30:11)" (in the NASB, that verse reads "...this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it [a]out of reach." That doesn't sound like God viewed the people as totally incapable of responding. James wrote "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)" For man to be incapable of responding to God and keeping His commandments, the Bible sure is full of examples of people doing just that. Paul wrote to the Romans the belief comes after hearing the preached Word of God. Your theology has people being saved because of their election without hearing the preached Word, while others are damned for existing in the same state. Oh how glorious!

While all persons who are conceived are guilty having sinned in Adam...and do deserve hell......God in mercy has elected a multitude to be the objects of His mercy.

And in that same mercy has sentenced the remainder to everlasting torment and punishment. The God of whom it was said was "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9)" was actually more than willing that a huge number perish into everlasting damnation, and He did so in His own mercy. Sorry, Icon, but that is not the God of the Bible, no matter how much you twist scripture to make it appear so.

why would it be "safe to say" this? This question itself is based on a wrong understanding or lack of understanding of biblical election as you seek to insert mans ability , or lack of ability as the deciding factor.

I only "seek to insert mans ability," Brother Icon, because the Bible reveals that to us. Not that man is able to do anything to save himself, as man does not render salvation upon himself, but man is able to accept or reject Christ. Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks. He then gives a conditional statement that "whosoever" will open the door, He will come in. The inverse, then, must be equally true that if man will not open the door, Christ will not come in. According to you, God has already determined what man will and will not open that door. If that is so, then why present it to man as an option?

as far as dying infants the confession of faith leaves the question safely in God's hands and cannot be improved upon;

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

So they were saved without believing? If the Elect are saved no matter what, and the non-Elect are damned no matter what, then why are we doing anything? Why did Jesus issue a Great Commission? Was there a danger of an Elect individual not being saved?

 

[Greektim]

facepalm

I love (read "hate") how this inane thread turned into an insipid Calvinism debate. :BangHead:

 

[Salty]

The bible teaches that only those elected by God are saved...Calvinists just believe the bible on this. ...blah, blah, blah

(bold my inserations)

Now, Iconoclast , would you mind answering the OP? Whatever you were talking about - start a new thread.

I love (read "hate") how this inane thread turned into an insipid Calvinism debate. :BangHead:

Very true - and this isn't even the C-A forum. Now, If I was a moderator - I would delete all the posts on this thread that were strictly C-A.