NY City School bans Santa, Christmas, Thanksgiving and Pledge.....

[righteousdude2]

Help! They're everywhere! The ultra liberals and politically correct police are doing their best to strip, to gut, this culture; this society; and this nation of the things that have made her great for more than two centuries.

What are your thoughts on the complete DISMANTLING of America?

http://nypost.com/2015/12/13/sensitive-principal-bans-santa-and-other-religious-symbols/

THANKS FOR YOUR IDEAS, THOUGHTS, VIEWS, OPINIONS AND FEEDBACK REGARDING THIS ISSUE.

 

[tiffaninichole]

Well, I have to say that I understand. Not everyone is a Christian and not everyone celebrates our holidays. There should be a separation of church and state, and it seems that NY is taking the step to do just that. Why make an elementary school celebrate Christmas when some of the students may be Jewish, Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, Athiest or whatever else? How fair is that to push our beliefs on those who don't agree with us? Children shouldn't feel left out at schools due to their beliefs.

 

[John of Japan]

Well, I have to say that I understand. Not everyone is a Christian and not everyone celebrates our holidays. There should be a separation of church and state, and it seems that NY is taking the step to do just that. Why make an elementary school celebrate Christmas when some of the students may be Jewish, Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, Athiest or whatever else? How fair is that to push our beliefs on those who don't agree with us? Children shouldn't feel left out at schools due to their beliefs.

You appear to misunderstand the meaning of the doctrine of the separation of church and state (which is a Baptist distinctive, by the way). What the constitution actually says is, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

What this means is that the US government has no right to make any laws whatsoever about religion--either forbidding it or naming a certain religion as the state religion or prohibiting any religious celebration. So when the principal hands down a ruling about Christmas being religious, he or she is actually violating the constitution. Each teacher in the school should be able to make his or her decision about how or how not to celebrate Christmas, and each student should have the freedom to decide (with their parents) whether or not to go along with it.

When I was in a public school, there were times when I refused to participate in an activity. Surely students still have that right.

P. S. Welcome to the Baptist Board.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, I have to say that I understand. Not everyone is a Christian and not everyone celebrates our holidays. There should be a separation of church and state, and it seems that NY is taking the step to do just that. Why make an elementary school celebrate Christmas when some of the students may be Jewish, Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, Athiest or whatever else? How fair is that to push our beliefs on those who don't agree with us? Children shouldn't feel left out at schools due to their beliefs.

No one is being forced to do anything. Its existence in the school does not impose on them anything at all. Further, banning the pledge is just odd. This is America. If you do not like America go home.

 

[John of Japan]

I wasn't able to access the first link, but if this link tells the same story, this principal is flat out nuts: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...nce-Sunset-Park-School-Teacher-361789101.html

With the pretense of the separation of church and state, she is trampling all over the rights to free speech of both the parents and children--everyone. From this link:
"PTA president Mimi Ferrer tells the paper that principal Eujin Jaela Kim has barred them from using the word 'Christmas,' angels, Santa Claus or other holiday imagery for an upcoming party. 'We can't even have a star because it can represent a religious system, like the Star of David,' Ferrer said."

 

[Rob_BW]

Since the United States has never had an established church, most people today have no idea what the founders were conveying in the Constitution about the establishment of a religion.

 

[JonC]

JoJ beat me to it. Unfortunately this misunderstanding of the separation of Church and State is becoming the accepted position.

 

[Rolfe]

My opinion only. Thirty-three years old seems a bit young to be a principal. More misguided, naive idealism than practical experience in the real world.

 

[matt wade]

You appear to misunderstand the meaning of the doctrine of the separation of church and state (which is a Baptist distinctive, by the way). What the constitution actually says is, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

What this means is that the US government has no right to make any laws whatsoever about religion--either forbidding it or naming a certain religion as the state religion or prohibiting any religious celebration. So when the principal hands down a ruling about Christmas being religious, he or she is actually violating the constitution. Each teacher in the school should be able to make his or her decision about how or how not to celebrate Christmas, and each student should have the freedom to decide (with their parents) whether or not to go along with it.

When I was in a public school, there are times when I refused to participate in an activity. Surely students still have that right.

P. S. Welcome to the Baptist Board.

While in theory I agree with your statements, I wonder how people on this board would react if a teacher made a decision to celebrate Islamic holidays, Kwanzaa, or one of the Hindu celebrations?

I personally would rather all religious celebration be removed from public schools, than to have to constantly worry that some teacher is going to push a religious ideology on my kids that I don't agree with.

 

[rsr]

The principal, it seems, is against free speech and free exercise of religion, although I'm not sure Christmas has much to do with religion these days, its having been co-opted by feel-goodism (Dickens I blame for some of that, coupled with Victorian sentimentalism) and commercialism. Still, those who have a genuine religious attachment to the holiday should feel free to express it. The problem is that society has adopted a winter festival that dominates the calendar and it has ostensible Christian origins, but no longer has the force of belief, having been watered down into something that has little connection with Christianity.

As to the pledge -- I feel the same way about enforced patriotism as I do about enforced religion.

Now, to follow a rabbit trail: I recently attended an anti-bullying skit in which Vixen was accused of bullying Rudolph. It was amazing -- and disconcerting -- to see how easily a whole school could be coaxed into accepting the pronouncement of the reindeer court in finding Vixen guilty and handing down his sentence. The whole thing reminded me of Stalin's show trials and re-education camps. Of course, you have to be of a certain age and have read a certain literature to see the parallels, but it made my skin crawl.

 

[JonC]

While in theory I agree with your statements, I wonder how people on this board would react if a teacher made a decision to celebrate Islamic holidays, Kwanzaa, or one of the Hindu celebrations?

I personally would rather all religious celebration be removed from public schools, than to have to constantly worry that some teacher is going to push a religious ideology on my kids that I don't agree with.

I can tell you how parents would act if the public school system made their children memorize and recite the five pillars of Islam (that was a requirement for our 7th grade class this year). Islam was the only religion that was taught as faith instead of its impact on history and culture.

Anyway.....I'm one of those democracy rules in public schools. I would actually expect my children to witness the celebration of Islamic holidays if we were attending a school comprised of an Islamic majority. I suspect when this does happen, we will see these holidays celebrated (how's that for optimism). But what I see now are a people denying their own beliefs and expressions of their own faith so as not to offend a minority. Even when I was a child we had people who were not Christians, but people didn't seem to get offended that other's rejected their beliefs. I suppose the one change that argues the other direction, however, is the diversity of belief and culture that exists throughout our cities and towns.

 

[John of Japan]

While in theory I agree with your statements, I wonder how people on this board would react if a teacher made a decision to celebrate Islamic holidays, Kwanzaa, or one of the Hindu celebrations?

I personally would rather all religious celebration be removed from public schools, than to have to constantly worry that some teacher is going to push a religious ideology on my kids that I don't agree with.

Either way, it's no skin off my nose. I have no dog in this race. It's six of one and half a dozen of another. Etc. (Our only child is a grown PhD who teaches with me.)

Having said that, with how my parents raised me, when something doubtful came up in the public school it was an opportunity to think through my own standards and positions on things. I remember, for example, going with the wrestling team to a Wednesday evening meet and missing prayer meeting (with my parents' permission), then wrestling with my conscience. That was a great, growth-causing experience for a teen!

So, if we eliminate all controversial items from a school's agenda, how is the student supposed to learn to think through these things?

 

[HeDied4U]

Apparently the ban has been overturned, at least as far as Christmas is concerned....

"PS 169's principal Eujin Jaela Kim had banned Santa and anything related to Christmas but the school district has overturned her. According to the Department of Education, Santa is considered a secular figure so he is is allowed to be at public schools. Other holiday symbols such as Christmas trees, Hanukkah menorahs, and the Islamic star and crescent are also permitted."

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/national/57465896-story

 

[BrandonA]

Well, at least the're equal-opportunity haters. I've always wondered why atheists take a far more tolerant stance towards mall Santas than they do every statue of Christ they find. According to their views, they're equally destructive.

 

[matt wade]

Well, at least the're equal-opportunity haters. I've always wondered why atheists take a far more tolerant stance towards mall Santas than they do every statue of Christ they find. According to their views, they're equally destructive.

Because most atheists aren't actually unbelievers, they are simply anti-Christian-God.

 

[BrandonA]

Yeah I know, I'm just being sarcastic.

 

[annsni]

I think someone needs to bone up on the Constitution and the court's rulings on what is allowed and what is not. Even teaching the origins of Christmas (and other religious holidays) is fully allowable under the law.

http://media.aclj.org/pdf/Holiday-Observance-in-Public-Schools.pdf

 

[HAMel]

rd2..., we don't want to offend the mooseslums now do we?

 

[righteousdude2]

rd2..., we don't want to offend the mooseslums now do we?

Mooo we don't....