NY to search Bags

This whole issue is part of the natural consequences of a Democracy. We were handed a Constitutional Republic, with the warning not to allow it to become a Democracy. Democracies are historically time limited to about 200 years, and we've exceeded that.

 

Sure carpro, that's exactly what they're looking for in peoples' knapsacks.

You may be right; I don't know.

 

There is no constitutional right to privacy except in one's home.

 

Sure carpro, that's exactly what they're looking for in peoples' knapsacks.

</font>[/QUOTE]No more of a stretch than you calling Nick Berg a "hired gun" and a "killer' to justify his beheading.

 

LadyEagle said:
The government is mandated by the US Constitution to defend and protect our borders (there is nothing in the Constitution about searching bags). The government has failed and continues to fail us miserably, even knowing the risks they are subjecting us to.

Please show me the article or amendment that says that the US government is not to allow aliens (legal, illegal, or martian) to enter our nation. And you are correct, there is nothing in the Constitution about searching bags, meaning it is FALSE to say it is unconstitutional. The founders were silent on the subject, meaning they left it up to us.

For your futher argument that is won't help prevent bombing... I think you're wrong. If every fifth bag is searched it will be MUCH harder to get a bomb on a train. It will be less likely that one would try, knowing that there is a good chance they will get caught.

As for the argument that Daisy posted about it not being likely that they would be blown up in an attack. That is true, but it wasn't likely that the passangers on the flights that crashed on 9/11 would be attacked either. But, they were. As for getting fired, the argument doesn't work. It will not take more than a minute or two to search your bag. Simple leave a few minutes earlier to ensure you have time to make the train. Your arguments about the airport are false. I have flown many times since 9/11, and have been pulled out for searching. I have never come close to missing a flight. I simply ensure that I arrive with enough time to go through the security procedures that are now in place.

Simply put, you all don't think that you have a right to be searched. I don't think you have the right not to be. The primary responsibility of government is to protect citizens. I want you searched, just to ensure that you can't do harm to my loved ones. If it makes life a little different, so be it.

 

Here you go:

The word "laws" includes our Immigration Laws.

We are being invaded by illegal aliens. Thousands every day.

We are being invaded by al Qaeda. They are among the illegal aliens invading us.

Congress has failed to call forth the Militia to execute the laws and repel invasions.

Show me a probable cause and get a search warrant. Then you can search my bag. My bag is my effects. There are my papers in my bag. And I don't like people rooting through my underwear at the airport just because we are too politically correct to profile.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

And do you honestly think a bomber will stop at the turnstyle and let someone search the "bag" without tripping the bomb? All those in the area will be killed.

Do you really believe someone who is on a homicide mission will just turn around once a dog sniffs him or a policeman stops him and not trip the bomb - no matter where he is?

Or, if you were a homicide bomber and you saw police at the turnstyle, would you go into a restaurant or department store or hotel lobby and trip the wire? Or maybe a hospital?

But, maybe you are right - maybe some homicide bombers will give up and go home and blow themselves up in their bath tub.

 

Daisy,

If I want to use Public Transportation I expect to comply with the policies of the agency operating the public transportation. I may hate the policy or I might not. It isn't a violation of my consitutional right though. They are not entering my private property and requiring that I submit to a search of my home or my business. They are saying, "If you want to use this service, you will comply with this policy."

And Six Flags Over Texas requires that you walk though a metal detector and if you have a bag, you are stopped by a gate guard who searches your bag.

 

The chances of being blown up are, what, astronomical? </font>[/QUOTE]9-11. We are at war against terrorist who want to kill you and every innocent civilian they can. You can stick your head in the sand and act as if the threat isn't real if you want, but the rest of us want to live and are willing not to allow you on the Subway if you are gonna whine about your non-existant right to privacy in a public place. Perhaps, you should ask the family members of about 3000 victims of 9-11 what the odds are...they might see things a bit differently than you. The fact is, we have to be right 100% of the time, which LE has rightly pointed out, we are not even there yet. The terrorists only have to be right one time to kill you and thousands of people.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I never did, carpro. You're the one who said that and tried to make like I did.

It seems as though you want to derail this thread with your inanity for your own personal vendetta.

 

Yes, they were. But studies have show time and time again that weapons are dismayingly easy to smuggle aboard. The searchs are mainly for show.

You're not from NY, are you? The trains don't always co-ordinate with each other or the buses. Or are you the sort of person who leaves for work an hour earlier than necessary "just in case"?

My point was that I DID arrive in plenty of time. I even asked to airline guys if I could have a pre-search and then stay with in their sight (refused). However, passengers are not allowed to board until their row is called. It was at THAT point that I was resubjected to a search and almost missed the flight. Just because something didn't happen to you doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.

[/quote]Simply put, you all don't think that you have a right to be searched.[/quote]Actually, you do for the most part. Read the 4th Amendment:

Yeah, and I want you to be locked up simply because you look suspicious to me. Good thing for both of us that this is a Republic and we still have rule by laws.

 

Wanting and doing are two different things.

4th Amendment gives me the right to be free of unreasonable searches of my person. Taking that away will not make anyone safer. The time and expense of the police is being WASTED on mere show. It's not as if the searches were even effective.

Maybe not. Maybe they don't like being used as an excuse for other people's politics.

We have never been and will never be 100% right. Our resources should be used effectively, not squandered on annoying shows. "See? We're doing something!" is the sum total of what the subway searches amounts to.

 

That is just about the biggest stretch I have ever seen on this message board. Illegal aliens are not invading anyone, and saying so is simple dishonesty. Calling the militia is a valid point. Of course, we know that is actually an executive function, and that the Congress is supposed to declare war, not command the military. It should also be noted that the quotes you provided are from seperate clauses of Article I section 8, and shouldn't be thought of as a continuous thought. Meaning, Congress has the ability to use the militia to repel an invasion, not for immigration.

You quoted the fourth amendment, which was the only possible way to argue against the searches. Of course, it says unreasonable searches. As we have seen by the replies on this thread, most do not think that searching at a subway station is unreasonable.

 

I never did, carpro. You're the one who said that and tried to make like I did.

It seems as though you want to derail this thread with your inanity for your own personal vendetta. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm guilty as charged and so are you.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/18/3244.html?

Daisy wrote:

"The contractors who were decapitated were mercenaries, hired guns, killers. They were not electricians, plumbers or construction workers. Of any of the invaders, they seem to me the least innocent and the most appropriate target. "

I'll say this and no more.


Of all the remarks I've seen on any number of forums, this has to be amongst the cellar dwellers for class. I confess to being shocked to see it on a Christian forum and even more shocked that you're the one that said it.

End of story.

 

Not quite, carpro. Nick Berg was not there as a contractor - I was quite obviously not refering to him; I was clearly refering to the mercenaries. Your mistake, your bad, so get off your high horse and learn to read.

End of story.

 

Daisy writes:
It's the principle - the 4th amendment right to protection against unreasonable search. Plus the harrassment and inconvenience. What I have in my bag is simply none of your business.

--------------------------
Strangly enough, I agree. It is unreasonable because I assume you are not a middle eastern male between the ages of 18 to 40. However, because of the ACLU and other liberal organizations, profiling is not only forbidden, but those who call for it are called racists. Working under the assumption that the government is obligated to provide a minimal amount of security to its citizens, they have no choice but to conduct random searches. Even if the 5th person is a 70 yr, old grandma in a wheelchair. But hey, at least we are being politically correct and culturally sensitive, right?
------------------------
Daisy continues,

Why not allow the police "random searches" of your house - if you've got nothing to hide, why not?
--------------------------
Apples and oranges. I am in my house, posing no danger to anyone. If at any time the law enforcement community has reasonable suspision to believe I may be a threat to the community, they will get a search warrant and check it out. If I find that the warrant was not on the "up and up", I have legal recourse. Unless they just want to take the place under emminent domain, but thats another thread.

 

Which is why nobody is being forced to submit to a search. The 4th ammendment does not give you the right to ride the Subway. Nobody is forcing you to be searched. If you don't want to be searched in a public place, then find another way to work and stop whining.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Of course, they have a choice. Violating citizens rights to protection against unreasonable searches is a very, very dangerous choice.

No, racial profiling is considered too wide a net to be considered reasonable. Profiling can be a valuable tool if it is done correctly. It should be done, correctly not randomly.

Don't discount granny altogether - she could be wired with explosives. If seventy year old grandmothers are the only ones not being subjected to a search.

In fact, that is one of my grudges against the transportation authority - when I was accompanying my 76 year old father from one hospital to another closer to his home after he had just two weeks earlier broken his hip and had it replaced - the security creatures were trying to lift his feet to check his shoes - he was sedated and in a wheelchair. They lost some of his things, too, while I was being searched.
------------------------

Well, I don't know that. You could be running a meth lab or a building bombs in your basement. We need to search your house just to make sure, 'cause I sure don't feel safe with your house going unsearched.

Under the Patriot Act, they don't need a judge to give a warrant. You won't necessarily even know that your house was searched, heh, heh, heh.

 

Practically speaking, there is no other way to get to work. Besides, what I can do is just use a different, unguarded entrance.

I am complaining LOUDLY about the waste of time and money (do you know how much cops cost?) for a mere show of "doing something" as well as whining about the inconvenience and stupidity of it all.

 

Practically speaking, there is no other way to get to work. Besides, what I can do is just use a different, unguarded entrance.</font>[/QUOTE]Go for it. Be advised, however, that if you are spotted by the police, that you could end up being the American version of the guy who was shot in the head in London. Make sure you don't wear a heavy coat, and don't keep running when the police yell stop. This advice could save your life.

I am complaining LOUDLY about the waste of time and money (do you know how much cops cost?) for a mere show of "doing something" as well as whining about the inconvenience and stupidity of it all. [/QUOTE]

And the cops are worth every last penny they are paid to protect the public.



Joseph Botwinick

 

Thanks, Joe. I'll keep that in mind.

Of course they are, but this is not protecting the public. The police need to be used well and wisely not squandered on make-work for show.