NY to search Bags

A question one should ask about this newly instituted 'random search' exercise is why is it only for the subways of New York City? We know there are terrorist cells in such unlikely places as Lodi, California (a small rural area 40 miles south of Sacramento) and that terrorists have been flooding across the Mexican border at will. Why is there no call for Americans to be searched for Chicago's CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) subways or the San Francisco Bay Area which offers BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) whose trains run through an under the ocean tunnel connecting Oakland to San Francisco? If this mode of transportation is such a hot target, why only the call for searches in NYC?

The answer is simple: This is just another test to see how much tryanny the American people will submit to in exchange for the illusion of safety - just like WACO. After the government used the military in violation of Posse Comitatus, gas and burned almost 100 Americans, including children to death, the sheep out in America were satisified the government did the right thing to keep them safe from the David Koresch's of the world. If there were to be a huge blacklash - 50% of those who normally use the subway in NYC - said no way, we would see this further destruction of our rights dropped. However, as long as people will tolerate abuse in the name of 'securuty' abuse will continue. Also, if they are so anxious to keep us safe from the terrorists, then why aren't they securing the borders? The whole thing is a scam.

Bear in mind that no government official can guarantee your safety! Government can only guarantee you a police state!

Thankfully, those who fought against horrendous odds to birth this constitutional republic ( we are not a democracy ) had more courage than we see in America today, or we would still be licking the British boots:


SOURCE

 

One View:

I am writing to you from Oklahoma City, where I am on a business trip. In downtown Oklahoma City, there is a park where a federal building once stood. Exactly how would "profiling" have stopped that attack?

Regards,
BiR

 

The London bombers were apparently Pakistani, not Arab. It's not unknown for women to be bombers. Your profiling is inept - that is precisely the sort of thing that gave profiling a bad rep.

I can't imagine New Yorkers wearing big crosses or Stars of David with big, happy smiles on the hot (some airless platforms are well in the 90s), crowded, stinking subway -- on the upside, most riders will give you a wide berth as they've learned to give grinning men. Be sure the big cross you're sporting isn't gold, nor the chain, or you won't have it long. And the cops will be tied up at the entrance, checking bags (shoppers carry a lot of bags) and so unable to help you. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, Daisy, Pakistanis are not exactly dead ringers for WASPs or Blacks, etc. Most of the bombers are young males although I am aware that there have been some females in Israel. So I think that the police should look for Islamic young males with backpacks or clothing that could conceal a bomb. That is a much more intelligent approach than searching some little old lady with a little sack of groceries.

I believe that it is more intelligent to profile and I think that is what Israel is telling people who ask for advice. They have reduced bombings by 90%.

Evidently, these bombers heavily perfume themselves because they believe that they must smell good to meet Allah, so guys who smell extra sweet in NYC should be very suspicious on your "stinking subway." It seems O'Henry was right to call NYC Baghdad on the subway, huh?

 

This morning the Today Show addressed this issue. They said that one search showed a hand-gun sewn into the lining of a child's teddy-bear. Profiling would have "skipped" that child, and the insane adult who put it there would have had the weapon.

 

Yes, but we are looking for terrorists bombers not general run of the mill criminals. However, TexSky, it is good to sweep the streets in time of war and in time of domestic terror when we know that we have al-Qaeda sleeper cells all over this country and also when we know that our government has been infiltrated by al-Qaeda, but the infiltration of the government by Islamofascists is a subject for another thread.

New York City would be a lot safer if they legalized the right of honest people to carry guns, but then Texas had a bunch of people murdered in Luby's because Texas said that you had to leave your gun in the glove compartment, TexSky, even though the law did not stop the murderer from carrying the gun into the Luby's. OK?

 

Some are, those from the Kashmir region. Otherwise, Pakistanis can be hard to distinguish from Italians, Greeks, Mexicans and other non-Wasps.

"Islamic males"? Can you tell a person's religion from looking at them? Say! I have an idea...we can institute a law requiring all Islamic people to sew yellow crescents on their sleeves. That should make them easy to identify.

From what I've read, they don't profile on religion and race but on behavior and individual characteristics.

I think one of them is a pacificist and the other already has one.

 

From what I've read, they don't profile on religion and race but on behavior and individual characteristics.

Exactly! Thanks, Daisy, that is what I am trying to tell you. We know that in the West the homicide bombers are Islamic so we can throw that in as a given. One of the behaviors that you are talking about is that they perfume themselves for death and entrance into the Islamic paradise, which is what Christians call hell.

 

Yellow crescents Daisy? Nobody has time to sew anymore, how about a law requiring all Islamic people to have a verichip implanted. Better yet how about a law requiring everyone to have a verichip implanted. That would make it so much easier for police to sort out the good people from the bad. We could even give prefered customer status and frequent commuter miles to subway travelers...yeah that it! Come to think of it the verichip implant may be solution to most all our problems.

 

Daisy wasn't serious about that--she was making fun of me by saying that happy Christians and happy Jews made her think of nazis in Germany. I was merely saying that Islamofascists are not going to hide as Christians and Jews because they have targeted them.

I still think that O'Henry was right that New York City is just Baghdad on the subway.

 

Too wide a net.

Well, they don't have to sew; they can use iron-on patches. The verichip is an excellent idea, but it's only good if you have a chip-reader, while the yellow crescent allows ordinary citizens to change subway cars, cross to the other side of the street and generally just keep a watchful eye on them.

The two ideas are not incompatible.

 

Chip readers would be easy to install in every corner of society, Just hook em in with security cams and microphones that are already there.

 

I pictured the chip-readers as being installed on the subway turnstiles, but linking them with the cams is brilliant.

I was making fun of you (well, not you but your words), but not for that. People with happy smiles on their faces are a rarity in the subways.

Your attitude towards Moslems and non-Wasps reminds me of nazis* - the whole "evil them" - not the idea of "happy Christians" and, still less, "happy Jews".

As for a terrorist blending in with his victims, a "wolf in sheeps clothing" is cliche.


*yeah, I know, auto-lose.

 

Church Mouse and Daisy,

If you go to profiling you're going to let more bombers in than you will if you use searches.

Also - regarding your remark that we are not looking for "your run of the mill criminal".. anyone who uses a baby's toy to smuggle a dangerous weapon is more terrorist like than "average criminal" like.

Muslims don't fit a racial profile.
Radical Muslims don't fit a racial profile.
Not all Arabs are Muslim.
Muslims who dress in traditional Muslim garb aren't the ones doing these things.
Most American Muslims are black people.

Remember Richard Reid? The Shoe Bomber? His mother was from England, his father was from Jamaica. He attended school in London, spoke with a Brittish accent.

Remember John Walker? He was a white American.

How is profiling going to stop the Reids and Walkers?

 

I can't believe that you would rather have people of various races in this country give up the most basic of their rights so that you don't have to be late to work while they search your bag for weapons!

Racial profiling is WRONG. It reduces fellow humans to a state of "inferior" and it doesn't work

 

Um, that was sarcasm.

Yes, I agree with you on both counts.

But there is a difference between racial profiling and criminal profiling (as much as some posters would disagree). For instance, wearing a heavy overcoat on a hot day would fit the bomber-profile. It also fits the homeless, mentally ill drug addict-profile. Horrible body odor, according to cmg, does not fit the bomber-profile, but does the hmida-profile.

It's not a game and it's not for amateurs.

 

And what will you do with those bombers who know that such people are profiled so they show up without an overcoat and without body odor?

Some of the suspected terrorists in the US were Doctors working out of Medical Centers. The UK bombers were shown white water rafting in typical garb.

 

No, no - if they showed up with body odor they could pass bomber-profile by meeting the hmida-profile.

Seriously, of course that is always going to be a problem. But, for that matter, since these bombers are clever enough to evade the profiling, I'd think they'd be clever enough to avoid the random searches by using a scout.

But they weren't wearing heavy overcoats while working as doctors or while white water rafting.

BTW, which suspected terrorists were doctors working out of Medical Centers? Have they been cleared since then or confirmed? I have to agree that out of the general population, doctors seem highly unlikely to be suicide-bombers.

 

To give you an idea of how much these terrorists don't look or seem like terrorists take a look at a few of them or at their histories. Tell me if you think profiling would have made you suspect them. Some look hispanic or black to me.

(By the way, MD's were deported from San Antonio because they were supsected of terrorists activities).

(One of the more intersting/frightening facts is that many of these men entered the US through Florida where they got fake driver's licenses).

These are some of the 9-11 Terrorists

Majed Moqed
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/photogallery/terrorism/gallery_07/photo12.html

Mohamed Atta was on of the hijackers on 9-11.
He had a degree in Architecture from Egypt, then moved to Germany, then moved to Spain. He attended Medical School in Spain.

Marwan al-Shehhi posed as a body guard for royalty prior to the September 11th hijacking.

Hani Hanjour, another 9-11 terrorists, was studied English at the University of Arizona.

Waleed M. Alshehri
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/photogallery/terrorism/gallery_07/photo02.html

Satam M.A. Al Suqami
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/photogallery/terrorism/gallery_07/photo04.html

Abdulaziz Alomari
He graduated with honors from high school, had attained a degree from the Imam Muhammad Ibn Saud Islamic University, was married, and had a daughter.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/photogallery/terrorism/gallery_07/photo05.html

Hamza Alghamdi
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/photogallery/terrorism/gallery_07/photo09.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hamza_al-Ghamdi.jpg

Ziad Samir Jarrah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ZJarrah.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Young_jarrah.jpg
His parents were wealthy, secular Muslims.
He was more known for attending discos and beach parties than mosques.
He fell in love with a dental student.
He was studying Aerospace Engineering.

Saeed Alghamdi pretended to work for a Phamaceutical Company.

Ahmed Alnami
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/photogallery/terrorism/gallery_07/photo19.html

Do all of these people fit your idea of a terrorist? Would you "yank them out of line" when you saw them?

Better to search EVERYONE.

 

I agree with this 100%.

 

They sure fit my definition for profiling. My daughters, who are all beautiful, are always searched in airports. Every time. I've seen many Muslims walk through with full head gear and sheets, never getting a second look. When I ask security about it, they rebuff me as a racist. They even make me take my shoes off for e-rays or something.
The system is broken.