O.S.A.S. (Once. Saved. Always. Saved)

I have been staying out of this thread because I do not have the time to get into the exegesis of the Greek text and show that the supposed “proof texts” for eternal security actually teach conditional security. However, this reference to Eph. 1:13-14 does not require an analysis of the syntax of the Greek text to refute it.

Eph. 1:13. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14. who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory. (NASB, 1995)

Therefore, a few brief comments,

I do not know of a single exegete of Paul’s Letter to the Ephesians who would agree with your comments on it. The seal that is spoken of here in this passage is a seal of ownership. It was used in all sorts of transactions, and in no case did it even remotely suggest that the property could not be sold or otherwise disposed of if the owner chose to do so. It simply identified the CURRENT owner.

Christians have been purchased with the redeeming blood of Christ and His seal of ownership has been placed upon us, hence we have been sealed. But that seal of ownership does not in anyway whatsoever prevent Christ from subsequently disposing of us if we violate the covenant of grace. There are always at least two parties to a covenant, and the covenant remains in effect only as long as all the parties to that covenant live up to their obligations specified in the covenant. Christ promises to never leave us nor forsake us, but we are not chained to Him, and we have the option at all times of both leaving Him and forsaking Him, and there is no short supply of examples in history of Christians who have done both.

And of course there are a multitude of passages in the Bible that for 1500 years were understood by ALL Christians to teach conditional security. And this same multitude of passages in the Bible is still understood by the large majority of denominations, churches, and individual Christians to teach conditional security. Those men whom it pleased God to use to establish the Canon of the New Testament and to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity believed and taught that our salvation is dependent upon continued belief and faith in Christ. The doctrine of OSAS was not invented till the 16th century.

Here is a listing of some of those passages in the Bible that teach the true danger of apostasy. Additional verses that teach the true danger of apostasy can be found in Nave’s Topical Bible under sub-headings not included here for the sake of brevity.

Apostasy

Described
Deu_13:13; Heb_3:12

Caused by persecution
Mat_24:9-10; Luk_8:13

Caused by worldliness
2Ti_4:10

Guilt and punishment of
Zep_1:4-6; Heb_10:25-31; Heb_10:39; 2Pe_2:17; 2Pe_2:20-22

Cautions against
Heb_3:12; 2Pe_3:17

Shall abound in the latter days
Mat_24:12; 2Th_2:3; 1Ti_4:1-3

Unclassified scriptures relating to
General references
Deu_32:15; 1Ch_28:9; Isa_1:28; Isa_65:11-16; Jer_17:5-6; Eze_3:20; Eze_18:24; Eze_18:26; Eze_33:12-13; Eze_33:18; Mat_13:20-21; Mar_4:5-17; Luk_8:13; Mat_24:10; Mat_24:12; Luk_11:24-26; Joh_15:6; Act_7:39-43; 1Co_9:27; 2Th_2:3; 2Th_2:11-12; 1Ti_4:1-2; 2Ti_3:1-9; 2Ti_4:3-4; Heb_6:4-8; Heb_10:26-29; 2Pe_2:1; 2Pe_2:15; 2Pe_2:17; 2Pe_2:20-22; 2Pe_3:17; Jud_1:4-6

Instances of:
Israelites
Ex 32; Num 14
Saul
1Sa_15:26-29; 1Sa_18:12; 1Sa_28:15; 1Sa_28:18
Amaziah
2Ch_25:14; 2Ch_25:27
Disciples
Joh_6:66
Judas
Mat_26:14-16; Mat_27:3-5; Mar_14:10-11; Luk_22:3-6; Luk_22:47-48; Act_1:16-18
Hymenaeus and Alexander
1Ti_1:19-20
Phygellus and Hermogenes
2Ti_1:15

From Nave’s Topical Bible. This work can be downloaded to your computer free of charge in its entirety as a free module in a free Bible study program that includes more that 20 translations of the Bible in English, plus very many more free modules including multi-volume commentaries on the whole Bible, etc. To download this free Bible study program, go to: http://e-sword.net/

 

How blessed is that servant whom his master finds doing this when he comes!
Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his property.

"But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master has been delayed,'
and begins to beat his fellow servants and eat and drink with the drunks,
the master of that servant will come on a day when he doesn't expect him and at an hour that he doesn't know.

Then his master will punish him severely and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Do you think Jesus is talking about a born again person here?

David

 

Yes.

 

Me too

 

Ok, here is the 64 thousand dollar question, is it earthly punishment or eternal seperation.

David

 

I think its the former but I cannot rule out the latter.

David

 

If its the latter, then Calvinism is seriously flawed and OSAS is of the devil.

But then again, what do I know

David

 

It is definitely referring to eternal punishment after death. There is no question about that. Most Baptists, however, would argue incorrectly that it is referring to people who were not truly saved. If these Baptists are correct, the Bible is so difficult to understand that it took 1500 years for somebody to understand the doctrine of salvation. My personal opinion is that God is a better writer than that. But what do I know—I am a Baptist myself.

 

It is definitely referring to eternal punishment after death. There is no question about that. </font>[/QUOTE]Your gonna have to convince me of that statement matey

David

 

That would be a logical conclusion. Calvin lived and wrote long before there were any good Bible study tools for him to use. Had he lived in the 21st century, there can be very little doubt that he would have understood the Bible a whole lot better.

 

The only people that I know of who would disagree are Zane Hodges and his gang, and those who have been deceived by the despicable Joey Faust.

 

Never heard of them.

Gonna start a new thread...

David

 

Zane Hodges is a fruit basket prepared ready to go by Dallas Theological Seminary. He teaches the grossly absurd doctrine of the devil commonly known as “millennial exclusion.”

Joey Faust is a most unfortunate individual who has no education beyond high school who teaches “millennial punishment in hell.” In other words, he suffers from a more advanced state of the disease that Hodges suffers from. I tried to help Joey, but it appears to me that his disease in terminal.

 

I live a sheltered life, thank goodness.

David

 

Zane Hodges is a fruit basket prepared ready to go by Dallas Theological Seminary. He teaches the grossly absurd doctrine of the devil commonly known as “millennial exclusion.”

Joey Faust is a most unfortunate individual who has no education beyond high school who teaches “millennial punishment in hell.” In other words, he suffers from a more advanced state of the disease that Hodges suffers from. I tried to help Joey, but it appears to me that his disease in terminal.

</font>[/QUOTE]Craig.
Is this teaching of Faust's the same as what Dr. Joseph Dillow expounded on in his work The Reign of the Servant Kings?

 

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field ."(36)

The following explaination is about the " tares ".

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;"(37)

"The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one ;"(38)

" The enemy that sowed them is the devil ; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."(39)

"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world ."(40)

Jesus just clearly declared the parable of the tares of the field to His disciples and to us. They are the devils seed and have never been believers.

Can we ignore all of this and declare that those the angels shall gather are children of the kingdom?

Jesus said that the children of the wicked one are those who will be gathered. These children offend and do iniquity.

Jesus said in vs 40 that these will be burned in the fire. Verse 42... " And shall cast them into a furnace of fire :..."

Brother, Jesus explained the parable. It is not any of the children of the kingdom who are gathered. The scripture states that the angels shall gather out of the kingdom all things that offend and do iniquity.

"Gather out of" is clearly defined by Jesus as those wicked ones who are living among those who have been planted by Jesus Himself.

Vs 41-43 is a summary of Jesus' declaration of 37-40.

Do you see now why we cannot declare that 41-43 is about believers being burned?

I don't say this as any rub, but scripture commands us to study to show ourselves approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth. We must study the entire passage as a whole and keep the fruit of it in context. I am as guilty as the next for plucking verses out of context because it sounds like good support. I have been corrected many times in my past and have had to humble myself before my brothers and sisters and God. I want to learn and teach the truth of each passage and apply it in life correctly.

Matthew 13:36-43 is clearly about the tares, the devils seed , being gathered and burned. I pray you will see this and begin to teach it to others. (Not OSAS, but at least that this passage does not apply to believers getting burned in the fire).

God Bless!

 

And what all is it that you think violates the covenant of grace?

What merits us grace and what takes it away?

God Bless!

 

AMen, Brother David MIchael Harris -- Preach it! YOu
surely know nothing

Like i keep chanting:

"OSAS = Once Saved, Always Saved" is what
ever is mean by this scripture:

Joh 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

 

I have carefully read your post, and the passage under discussion. I am willing to admit you are right and I was wrong about this passage. I now see that "gathered out of the kingdom" really means "gathered out from among those that are in the kingdom".

However, then I am at a loss to understand how you would see the wheat and tares in Luke 8. In Luke 8, the tares choked some of the wheat (Luke 8:7,14), and earlier in this thread you said these ones (the wheat) were not saved - wouldn't they have instead been the tares? If God sows the wheat, and Satan sows the tares, how do you explain the wheat that is choked by the tares in Luke 8?

 

Look at the Greek behind the passage of John 10:28,29