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Featured Obama's love for Islam - cont.

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by kyredneck, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I believe Saddam was left in power after to avoid the situation we have now in Iraq. He was a brutal dictator but kept things under control. Under Saddam there were 1.5 million Christians in Iraq, now there are less than half million.


    Invasion of Iraq was a mistake. That mistake was compounded when the Iraqi army was totally disbanded. With Saddam gone the Iraqi Army could have kept things under control in Iraq, There would have been no Sunni uprising, no having to put up with that Shia al Sadr??? who kept causing trouble, no IED's from Iran.


    It was the reparations that Germany was forced to pay. Put them in depression with runaway inflation. Paved the way for Hitler and the Nazi Party takeover.

    That is why I say it was a mistake to invade Iraq.

    The Japanese just forced our entry into the war sooner. I am convinced the Pearl Harbor disaster was allowed to happen to get the American people to support war; Just as the sinking of the Maine in Cuba, and the sinking of the Lusitania prior to WWI.

    You are right! What can I say. I believe one of the founding fathers advised against getting involved in Europe's problems.
     
  2. Use of Time

    Use of Time Well-Known Member
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    Fantastic answers OldRegular. Spot on.
     
  3. Use of Time

    Use of Time Well-Known Member
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    But that's just it. Victory was sure and swift when he toppled the Saddam regime. It's the counterinsurgency that grew after that complicated the whole mess. We were there for ten years. What exactly does "fighting to win" mean?
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The vacuum dubya created over there has turned that entire region upside down. And for what? WMDs? Right. Deja vu, Iran and the atomic bomb.
     
    #24 kyredneck, Feb 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2015
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...wow, I wasn't aware of this, what a turnaround, maybe there's hope after all:

    Menendez bags on Iran sanctions, and congressman says AIPAC demands deference to Israel over US January 27, 2015

    "The neoconservative threat to Iran negotiations is being staunched as we speak. Democratic Senator Robert Menendez announced today that he won’t sponsor legislation for more sanctions on Iran until March 24 at the earliest."

    "More pushback against the neocons. Last week David Corn said that House Speaker John Boehner’s move to invite Netanyahu to upstage Obama’s state of the union policy on Iran was “nearly traitorous.” MJ Rosenberg echoes the meme: “American Traitor.” And Buzzfeed picks up, Louisville, KY, congressman John Yarmuth saying it’s “close to subversion.” What a theme, national interest. Yarmuth also says that AIPAC and many Israel supporters demand dual loyalty: “we defer to Israel more than we defer to the United States.” The emperor doesn’t have a lot of clothes on here!

    Yarmouth is 67 and Jewish, a former journalist. He spoke on progressive radio, the Stephanie Miller show:

    I am totally outraged at Speaker Boehner for doing it, I think it’s, it was deliberately designed to undermine the president — that’s close to subversion. I cannot believe it. Forget the protocol issues, that by itself is certainly a problem, but the motivation behind it is what particularly outraged me.”

    Yarmuth describes the power of AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, in Congress:

    “And, you know, I was there in the chamber in 2011, when Netanyahu spoke, and there he got I don’t know how many standing ovations. And I was in Israel shortly thereafter, and believe me, the Israelis pay very, very close attention to events like that. And I just — the first thing out of virtually every Israeli’s mouth was: ‘What was with all the standing ovations?’ And I said: ‘Well, AIPAC was meeting in Washington that week, and the gallery was full of AIPAC members, and every one of the members all wanted to see — make sure that their constituents saw them stand up.’ Well, that was kind of a phony reaction, but the Israelis took it very seriously. And so it can have an impact on the election — and, yeah — totally inappropriate on so many levels….

    “A lot of it has to do with fundraising — I’m sure some of it is sincere support for Israel. You know, I’m a Jewish member of Congress, I’m a strong supporter of Israel, but my first obligation is to the Constitution of the United States, not to the Constitution of Israel. [P.S. Israel has no constitution] And unfortunately, I think, some of the demands that are made of members by AIPAC and some strong Jewish supporters are that we pay more attention — I guess we defer — to Israel more than we defer to the United States.

    “And that’s another thing, because if he’s going to come over here and say ‘well, my intelligence shows this’ — you know, there’s an implicit, I guess, admission — or not admission, I guess concession — that Israeli intelligence is superior to American intelligence. I’m not ready to sit there and endorse that kind of proposition, and I suspect he will, basically, talk about things like that — you know, try to match their assessment of the situation against ours. And I’m not willing to believe theirs is superior.”..."

    I've said it several times already; Boehner's bonehead move may well cost him his job; I'd roll in floor guffawing if it does.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Kudos to the congressman from KY! He's got guts!

    From Rep. John Yarmuth website:

    "STATEMENT: Why I will not be attending Israeli PM Netanyahu's speech to Congress
    Thursday February 12, 2015

    As a Jewish member of Congress, and as someone who proudly supports the State of Israel, I am saddened by the breakdown of the traditionally bipartisan cooperation on issues affecting that nation, precipitated by the impending speech of Prime Minister Netanyahu to Congress on March 3.

    The controversy surrounding the invitation to the Prime Minister and his acceptance has unfortunately made the question of attendance at the speech a matter of public interest. It is both sad and ridiculous that attending this speech will be used as a litmus test for support of Israel. In short, roll will be taken, and some outside organizations have even threatened potential absentees with electoral repercussions. Since I do not plan to attend the Prime Minister’s appearance, I now find it necessary to publicly explain my intended absence.

    Among the many reasons I will not attend are the following:

    We know what he is going to say. Netanyahu’s position on the ongoing negotiations on Iran’s nuclear program is not a secret. Like many other members, I have been visited by the Israeli ambassador and understand what they want and how that differs from what U.S. negotiators are attempting to accomplish.

    The Prime Minister has plenty of other places to express his opinions. In fact he has done so many times.

    Netanyahu will specifically be arguing against the foreign policy of the administration. Speaker Boehner invited the Prime Minister to address Congress specifically to refute President Obama’s position. I will not contribute to the impression that this body does not support the President of the United States in foreign affairs.

    The speech is scheduled less than two weeks before Israeli elections and there is a demonstrable risk that Netanyahu will use the perception of congressional support in his campaign. He did it before. A television ad for his 2013 campaign begins with a shot of the U.S. Capitol, and has footage of rousing applause from members. (House ethics rules prohibit members of Congress from using such footage in political ads.)

    It will become a matter of score-keeping as to who stands up and applauds and who doesn't. Having visited Israel only months after Netanyahu addressed Congress in 2011, I know how much political impact these scenes have in that country. There is pressure to join the applause even if a member does not agree with statements made.

    Congress has a broader responsibility than the security interests of Israel. While it certainly is important that we understand the Israeli perspective, the American people will hear only Netanyahu’s perspective, creating a public perception that could undermine a broadly supported resolution to the Iranian nuclear situation.

    The Prime Minister’s appearance will be construed by many to infer congressional support for his position as opposed to US policy.

    I do not want my respectful attendance to in any way imply support for his position.

    Finally, the speech comes at a delicate period in the negotiations with Iran, coming only three weeks before the deadline established for an agreement on a framework for a program to ensure that Iran does not have the capability to build a nuclear weapon.

    I sympathize with the Israeli predicament in this situation. They are forced to sit by while six other nations negotiate an agreement that directly affects their national security. They do not have a seat at the table. On the other hand, the only way a potential Iranian nuclear threat can be averted peacefully is if the world powers use the crippling economic sanctions to force a diplomatic solution. All of those countries have an interest in preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Prime Minister Netanyahu’s position, if adopted by the United States and the other negotiating parties, would make a diplomatic resolution much more difficult, if not impossible."
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Anything quoting Marxist David Corn of Mother Earth is immediately suspect in my opinion.
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    What about a Jewish Congressman telling it like it is about AIPAC influence?
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    That is nothing new. The problem is that the dispensational teaching that Israel is still the chosen people of God has strongly influenced American policy toward Israel.

    That being said I have no problem with our support for Israel, but it should be for the correct reason. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Islam don't like Israel and I don't trust Islam. The Saudi's are building schools in this country that teach their version of Islam!
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Can you cite where it's happened before?

    Are you aware of how much funding AIPAC gives to certain congressmen? 'Off the cuff', Boehner has received right at $200,000 from AIPAC since 2010. The
    Kirk-Menendez bill was pushed by AIPAC and defeated last year, now with the Republican congress they're pulling Boehner's strings and trying to push it through again.

    "Netanyahu’s position, if adopted by the United States and the other negotiating parties, would make a diplomatic resolution much more difficult, if not impossible."

    Do you want Netanyahu to have his way? It doesn't bother you that a foreign country could have enough influence on congress that could propel us into yet another catastrophic war in the ME?
     
    #30 kyredneck, Feb 26, 2015
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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Peruse this OR:

    AIPAC contributions to congress

    Boehner's funding is actually more than is shown here, but probably less than the $200,000 I stated earlier.

    Now consider Yarmouth's statements concerning Netanyahu's speeches:

    "...AIPAC was meeting in Washington that week, and the gallery was full of AIPAC members, and every one of the members all wanted to see — make sure that their constituents saw them stand up...."

    "It will become a matter of score-keeping as to who stands up and applauds and who doesn't."

    As before and always, AIPAC will be present WATCHING to see which congressmen are present and which congressmen stands up and applauds Netanyahu.

    Guess what's going to happen to any congressman that isn't present or doesn't stand up and applaud Netanyahu?

    No more funding from AIPAC and they'll be smeared as not pro-Israel or even as anti-Semitic.

    You agree with this arrangement? Is this OK by you?
     
    #31 kyredneck, Feb 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2015
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Many Israelis deplore Netanyahu's U.S. visit

    "JERUSALEM — President Obama is not the only one unhappy about Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's planned visit to Washington next week. Many Israelis here are, too.

    Netanyahu's trip has produced a backlash among those who worry about the consequence: plunging traditionally close relations between U.S. and Israeli leaders to an unprecedented low point.....

    At the root of Netanyahu's visit and Obama's snub is a dispute over U.S. negotiations with Iran on Iran's nuclear program. Netanyahu has warned that the U.S. is making too many concessions and the U.S. is accusing the Israeli leader of trying to stir up GOP congressional opposition to sabotage a deal.

    ...A "narrow majority" of Israelis oppose Netanyahu's speech before Congress, says Jonathan Rynhold, a senior researcher at the Begin Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar ilan University. But, he says, the controversy "is unlikely to affect him during the election." Polls show a tight race for the most seats in Israel's parliament, or Knesset, between Netanyahu's conservative Likud Party and a liberal coalition, the Zionist Union.....


    Bibi may lose his job over this fiasco.
     
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The national-security state’s isis racket

    The official enemy de jour that has everyone all riled up and scared is ISIS. If U.S. forces don’t bomb ISIS, the argument goes, ISIS will take over Iraq, and Syria, and Lebanon, and Europe, and Asia, and Latin America, and then the United States. If the bombs don’t fall on ISIS, before long Americans will be speaking Arabic and their children will be studying the Koran in America’s government schools.

    It’s all just one great big racket — a racket based on “national security,” a term that isn’t even found in the Constitution and that doesn’t even have an objective meaning. The only way that the U.S. national-security state apparatus — i.e., the vast military establishment and military empire, the CIA, and the NSA — can justify its continued existence is by ginning up crisis after crisis with the aim of keeping the citizenry filled with fear, anxiety, and depression. The apparatus then becomes people’s sedative, assuring them that everything is going to be okay because the apparatus is the only thing keeping them safe.

    Never mind that the national-security apparatus produces the very threats it then uses to scare people with. After all, did anyone hear of ISIS before the U.S. invaded and occupied Iraq, a country that had never attacked the United States or even threatened to do so?

    No. That’s because there was no ISIS before the apparatus invaded and occupied Iraq. It was the invasion and occupation, along with other interventions by the apparatus, such as in Syria and Libya, that has produced ISIS, the new, scary enemy of the day.

    But of course, no statist wants to hear that. The national-security state is akin to a god, one that is keeping them safe from all those scary creatures thousands of miles away from American shores, creatures that are brought into existence by the very policies of the apparatus itself.

    http://fff.org/2015/02/26/national-security-states-isis-racket/
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You familiar with the Marshall Plan?
     
    #34 OldRegular, Jul 3, 2015
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