Obesity

[Bro. Curtis]

Look folks, I'm sorry I sound insensitive, but...

First of all, I don't believe God wants volunteers working for him. He wants full-time, committed, able people to hold down these positions. I don't believe he calls people who can't make it to every service, who even occasionally call in sick, or who are a bad example to non-christians.

I believe God uses people's suffering to show his glory. If people would submit to this, and seek his will, then we wouldn't have to turn them away.

Aaron put up an excellent biblical reference to my original question.

When the time comes that I can no longer make it to every service, then I will have to step down from the music ministry. When the time comes that I can no longer drive, I will have to stop picking up our physically and mentally challenged members.

The question is this...what did God give me my illness for ? And how can it be used to show his glory ?

I have not changed my mind about this. When I see a 300 pound missionary asking for money, it's very hard for me to justify sending it.

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
Look folks, I'm sorry I sound insensitive, but...

First of all, I don't believe God wants volunteers working for him. He wants full-time, committed, able people to hold down these positions. I don't believe he calls people who can't make it to every service, who even occasionally call in sick, or who are a bad example to non-christians.

Mr. Curtis, you have just eliminated most of us. I'm glad, on my own behalf, that God can use me at all. I was kicked in the gut by a horse when I was 21 and have continuing problems and more surgery due (and I am 54 now) from that. I have a retarded son who has been throwing up almost daily lately and we don't know why. That rather precludes a lot of activities right now.

But God uses me anyway. His way. His timing. And I am grateful for that.

I believe God uses people's suffering to show his glory. If people would submit to this, and seek his will, then we wouldn't have to turn them away.

Suffering connects us with one another. A person who has had cancer, for instance, has immediate understanding and empathy for another person who has just been diagnosed -- understanding and empathy the rest of us could never have. As far as obesity goes, as we get older, our metabolism slows down. I envy the women who stay slender at my age. I'm not obese, but no one would want me for a model, either! And for years I fought to tears and with prayers and supplications of all kinds to lose the weight I was putting on. To no avail. But at least my lap is bigger for my grandchildren now!

When the time comes that I can no longer make it to every service, then I will have to step down from the music ministry. When the time comes that I can no longer drive, I will have to stop picking up our physically and mentally challenged members.

I pray, that when the time comes for you, that you will not discontinue your work in music and that you will find someone to help you with the pickups. Please, take it from me, if you let a couple of roadblocks stop your travel, you are in real trouble! You end up feeling sorry for yourself and getting a little bitter. Absolutely unnecessary. Ask God what to do. I am betting He'll keep you on part-time if you are willing...

The question is this...what did God give me my illness for ? And how can it be used to show his glory ?

God allowed us all to have disabilities of one kind or another. They establish connections with one another; they stop pride; they direct our mind to more important things than the advertisements would direct them to; they remind us daily of the horror of sin; and yes, they allow God to show His glory through us.

Joni Eareckson Tada has a good picture for this last part: when a jeweler has a diamond more spectacular than any othe jewel, he does not put it in with the other jewels, but rather puts it n a field of black and shines a light on it. If your life seems like that field of black sometimes, check for the jewel and let God's grace shine all the brighter for being shown in your life.

I have not changed my mind about this. When I see a 300 pound missionary asking for money, it's very hard for me to justify sending it.

Suggestion: Ask God what to do with your money. He knows the heart and the real circumstance for everyone.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I love Joni Erikson, everything I have heard and read about her. She is truly a woman who submitted, prayed, and found her role in God's ministry. And I don't believe I have ever seen or heard her feeling sorry for herself.

The original point of this post was obesity, not disability, but a refusal to treat one's body as a temple. And how it relates to holding church offices. And the first few posts were very helpful, but now it's turning into exactly what I didn't want, but expected.

I stand by what I said.

 

[Abiyah]

Mr. Curtis -

I know that you did not intend anything against
anyone. Aalthough I have only been here a short
time, I have yet to see a post that would lead me
to believe that.

I am getting better and stronger. I had my first
weekend with energy for a long, long time,
attending both my 3.5-hour long service and the
two services at my husband's church this past
weekend. This thing is not going to beat me!
8oD ! ! 8oD ! ! 8oD ! !

May our God bless you!

And Helen, I don't know how you do it. I am
praying for your son.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

In '85, I was diagnosed with non-Hodgekins lymphoma. As you can see, I'm still around. God heals when he wants to. We have a woman in church with the same illness, and she will most likely die within the year. I have no idea why God would heal me and not her. But if she wanted to be a Sunday School teacher, shouldn't we consider the fact that she can't make it every Sunday ?

Helen has definately been a blessing to this board, her burdens have probably done a lot to keep her home and given her lots of time to type out her messages to us, and I have learned a lot from her. Maybe that's what God intended when she was given her difficulties, but they were given. I don't think she got kicked by the horse on purpose. Obesity can be avoided, and it can be dealt with. Disability has to be accepted, and submitted to.

Helen, you have been a blessing to me, and I'm sorry for how this discussion turned so ugly, that was not my intent. You have given us stories about your family that have reduced me to tears more than once.

[ August 07, 2002, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

[tyndale1946]

RomOne16 said:Sounds more like some bretheren pointing at the mote in others eyes, rather than the beam in their own. I agree with that and would like to add obesity is one of the least of our problems in churches. I'm sure the person that has the problem knows full well about it without adding insult to injury. I would worry about a brother who comes to church drunk, or breaks the law continually, or beats his wife, or who has been caught with pornography. Obesity is sometimes a medical problem and some say they wouldn't put them in a leadership role. Why I personally don't see a problem and they may be able to do a better job than you think them capable of. If a preacher gets in our stands and preaches the gospel and weighs 400 lbs I will give him just as much as I would a skinny preacher. I hear others say we are the temple of God... I'm very well aware of that but what part of the temple is the Lord concerned about? Does he really care if I go to the gym and make my body buff so I can lift a piano by myself?... If I'm not mistaken the Lord does not look on the outward appearance but the Lord looks on the heart. We need to get on our knees and exercise the heart and that obese person needs to know we care about them. The only thing I see is a hypocritical outlook on those different than ourselves and if it starts with the obese person we are just allowing the circle to get larger. As Helen I also have two handicapped children and know whereof I speak... It never stops with the obese person ever!... Brother Glen

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
We have a woman in church with the same illness... But if she wanted to be a Sunday School teacher, shouldn't we consider the fact that she can't make it every Sunday ?

Of course you're thinking only of one person teaching a class and being responsible for everything. Currently in my Sunday School class, the teaching responsibility is shared between four people -- one of us each week for the month and a volunteer for the fifth Sunday when if comes up. We also have a person responsible for outreach and another who acts as director. The system works very well, we get diversity in teaching, people who would not normally get involved can share the burden, and no one gets burned out. People who have physical problems can be accomodated.

Also, you seem not to take into consideration those who need to travel occasionally to visit family and such during the weekends. Most of us who are not pastors can't take time off of work during the week to travel and weekends affords the only opportunity. The weekend before last I went to visit my father whom I haven't seen in 9 months while he's been recovering from chemotherapy. I missed church here on Sunday, but went to worship with the Methodists with my parents. Loving my parents is God's work too and it sometimes takes the precedence over being at my church every Sunday.

Getting back to the topic, if we ban obese people from church leadership positions, shouldn't we ban people who like to argue (1 Timothy 3:3) or often give into materialism (many references) or habitually lust (many references)? These things are at least as bad but they don't usually leave as much of a trace as gluttony -- by the way, gluttony is the real sin, not weight or size.

 

[tyndale1946]

Mr. Curtis said:

But if she wanted to be a Sunday School teacher, shouldn't we consider the fact that she can't make it every Sunday?

You mean to tell me there isn't one person in your church who could fill in for her? If she wants to be a Sunday School Teacher give her the opportunity... God gave her the desire and knowledge!... And you know what God might teach you something thru her!... Why are Gods children so quick to judge the abilities of others?... God knows all about us... You need to wait on the Lord!... Brother Glen

 

[Bro. Curtis]

We are a very small church. We have two sunday School teachers. Two. One for grade school, one for the teens. Every one else is involved in some way or another to just keep our church functioning. If a Sunday School teacher can't make it, the kids sit thru the adult hour in the main theatre.

Gee, the first page of this was great, filled with a lot of good responses, now it's getting kinda nasty. So I'm bowing out. It was a question of appearance, of being a good role model, I didn't intend this to ba e a discussion about disabilities, but that is what it has turned into. I am talking about an unrepentant way of life.

Should we let obese people hold church offices ?

My final statement would be to bring them into counseling, and try to encourage them to lose the extra weight. If they are unwilling to do that, then I say no.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Are you guys here still glad I came back ?

 

[Baptist Believer]

posted by Mr. Curtis:
Should we let obese people hold church offices ?

"Should we let people with habitual sin hold church offices?" would probably be the better question.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
Are you guys here still glad I came back ?

Sure! I just wish you wouldn't duck and run when we challenge you.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Ducking and running ? I don't get it. I have stayed here and taken my beating.

Please elaborate, 'cuz whatever you mean by that comment flew over my head.

 

[post-it]

It seems that each Church has unwritten rules as to which sins it will accept and which it won't.

I have made countless posts which have shown that we all live a life of continuous sin. My underlying point has been to show that we chose which sins are allowed and which are not for church membership as well as being a saved Christian. This line changes with culture and times.

We must all be tolerant of others and their sin and not beat them up over it. That is for the Lord and their own heart to do, not the church. However, that being said, I see no problem with a church that says, these sins are allowed and these are not. I have made countless posts that defended homosexuality, and abortion. Yet I don't believe that "a" church should allow anyone to remain a member if the majority is not comfortable with that behavior.

It is the right of a private group of people not to have to tolerate anything they don't want to put up with. So in one way I say it is ok to be homosexual and I don't see that God cares one way or the other about it, in the next breath I will say a church should have full freedom not to allow them in as members. I wouldn't want a person with herpes simplex taking care of my kid in the nursery. I don't want my kid, in the same Sunday school class with a kid that just got probation for drug possession. You may not want your son in the same room with a black or homosexual and you have that right since we are talking about a private group membership. Our feelings about who we accept or not should have nothing to do with who God likes or not, and we can't know what God is doing in these peoples lives so the best thing to do is either help them or get out of Gods way without doing spiritual damage. We are human and fear much and have a right to fear much.

Mr. Curtis is right in laying limitations on who should hold office etc. It is further right to kick people out when they are not following the rules. But we shouldn't say it is because God doesn't approve, we drive people away from Christ when that is done. Who in their right mind would tell a sinner to leave, because you are not right with God, he hates what you are doing! When you should say, its not for us to judge, but we don't allow that in our church, this has nothing to do with what God allows or not, his forgiveness and patience is beyond our understanding, we as a membership just won't allow it so leave already!

This way the person leaves understanding that it is the membership that is to blame, NOT GOD.

See how much easier that would be? The weaker Christians are afraid to offend others, and they will hide behind God or the Bible by claiming God doesn't allow that etc. when it is really themselves not wanting to take the responsibility.

We should be ashamed of ourselves for pretending to know so much about God, that we send people away in guilt and shame instead of being honest and saying "WE" DON'T LIKE YOU, GET OUT! Find a church that accepts that or will work with that. WE WON'T.

[ August 07, 2002, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:

"Should we let people with habitual sin hold church offices?" would probably be the better question.

If that is the question, then no, we shouldnt' give them new responsibilities. If they are in a position already, and are found to be in habitual sin, then we should do it biblically, with the goal of restoring fellowship. Matthew 18:15-20 is probably the best way to approach it.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Should we let people with habitual sin hold church offices?" would probably be the better question.

Have we ascertained that obesity is a "habitual sin"?

If so, then the answer should be "No".

If there are other causes for obesity than sin or if we don't think obesity is sin or we don't agree with the morbidity charts of the medical/insurance industry complex that say I should be 7'6", then the answer should be "Not Applicable".

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
If ... we don't agree with the morbidity charts of the medical/insurance industry complex that say I should be 7'6", then the answer should be "Not Applicable".

Aren't you 7'6"? You stand pretty tall from this angle!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
Ducking and running ? I don't get it. I have stayed here and taken my beating.

But I didn't get all my licks in...

Please elaborate, 'cuz whatever you mean by that comment flew over my head.

I was referring to your post about how you were bowing out of the thread immediately after I posted a response. You didn't respond to me and I interpreted that (at this late hour) as ducking and running. I probably should be in bed instead of typing on my computer...

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Don't worry, i have gotten' some pretty thick skin from this place.

I am truly sorry for the folks who were offended by this thread. It is a very touchy subject.

The truth is, we will not agree with everything, and it is very easy to say things to people when you don't have to look at them.

I could probably use a little more charity, I'll pray for it.

Thanx for the answers, everyone.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
I could probably use a little more charity, I'll pray for it.

That's a good plan for all of us!