Objective of Jesus' Ministry

I think you are reading a bit much into his statement. I don't think he is saying that all of Christendom has been wrong and interpreting salvation scriptures wrong all these centuries. I think he is saying that many modern Christians in the pew don't pay real close attention to what their pastor is saying and don't really evaluate it Biblically with a critical mind. There is certainly much of that going on today in many Churches. There is no doubting that. There is a reason that many people are embracing worldliness and bad theology in many churches today.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Thanks JB for showing me that I am really speaking, well I should say :type: in English, because sometimes I think I am typing in English and some gremlin on the information superhighway is hijacking my text en route and translating it into Chinese or something before it hits the site. :laugh:

 

I guess he voted now... :laugh: :laugh:

 

Joseph, I'm guessing you have not followed the threads where JJump has posted a lot. He has said that most of Christendom has been wrong in at least 2 threads. He takes verses and parables that are about salvation and says they are about ruling with Jesus in the kingdom. Just read through the threads on the wise and foolish virgins and the salvation thread. I've been dialoguing with him on at least 2 threads, so I did not say the above as an exaggeration. You just have no idea how true it is.

 

No I don't assign meaning to the text, I let the text tell me what it is talking about and then proceed.

 

JJ,

I read a little of the other thread and I must admit, I am confused. Would you mind just putting in real simple terms (50 words or less) what it is that you believe was the objective of Jesus ministry so I can understand it better?

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick

 

How about we not use JJ's words, but let His words speak for themselves.

"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."

"Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 "And as you go, preach, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.

It seems fairly obvious to me that Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost, and the sheep of the house of Israel were the ones that were lost. He came to preach the Truths of the kingdom to these lost sheep. And He did so with many great signs, wonders and miracles.

Now in doing this He also served a much larger purpose because God knew that by sending His Son with this message was going to get Him crucified, which was exactly what God said was going to happen and what had to happen to not only save the Jews, but to make a way for the Gentiles to have an opportunity to accept or reject the message that the nation of Israel did reject.

Hope that clarifies.

 

JJ,

I think that helps. Thanks. Are you saying that at the time of Christ that the Jews were God's elect, but because of their rejection, he chose the Gentiles to be God's elect? Is this what we would normally refer to as replacement theology?

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick

 

No the church doesn't replace Israel. Israel will ALWAYS be God's elect. They were chosen for a purpose and that purpose was to rule at the head of the nations and they will one day in the future realize that calling.

Abraham was promised an earthly seed and a heavenly seed. The physical kingdom was offered to Israel when they left Egypt. Some didn't believe in the wilderness and perished. The next generation went into the promised land, but never fully established the kingdom as God had purposed.

However the physical kingdom was promised to Israel and can not be taken away and one day will be delivered to them.

But what most people don't see is that the earth is ruled from two spheres. It is ruled from a physical sphere (that would be our physical governments today) and it is also ruled from a heavenly sphere where Satan and his angels are ruling. They rule over all the nations except Israel, because Israel is not to be reckoned among the nations. Michael is actually the ruler over Israel.

So back to our story. Israel was promised the earthly/physical kingdom. What John the Baptist, Christ and the apostles were offering was the spiritual aspect of the kingdom. Christ was offering the opportunity to rule and reign with Him from that heavenly sphere where Satan and his angels are currently ruling from.

When Christ returns to set up His kingdom He will rule from the heavens (Daniel tells us that the heavens do rule) and He will also reign from His father's throne in Jerusalem. His kingdom will be a complete rule over this planet.

So the church doesn't replace Israel, the church just provides the fulfillment of Abraham's spiritual seed.

I have some great resource material that go into a lot more detail and shows how Scripture lays out this big picture. I'll PM you with it if you want.

 

JJ,

What happens to your theory if Israel never accepts Christ?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Sure thing. It may be a while before I can look at it though. But, send it anyway. I am interested to see who teaches this.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Well that question is like a question someone asked in SS on Sunday. What would have happened if Israel would have accepted the offer when Christ was on earth.

It's pretty much a moot question, because Israel wasn't going to accept Christ when He was here the first time. However, as much as it was garaunteed that they wouldn't accept Him the first time you can see over and over in the OT they will accept Him the second time.

It's a done deal and you can count on it happening at some point, I believe in the near future, but that's another subject

 

At what point in the OT is this guaranteed?

Joseph Botwinick

 

You can see this truth in the story of Moses, who was rejected by his brothers the first time, went into a far land and married a foreign wife and then was accepted by his bretheren on his return.

You can also see this in the story of Joseph who was rejected by his brothers, sold by his brothers but was accepted by his brothers. Joseph also took for himself a foreign wife while he was away from his brothers as well.

Those are the two that come to mind right off the top of my head.

EDIT: I forgot to metion the healing that is talked about in Isaiah talks about this and then also in Haggai I believe. I'll double check on that one and get back to you.

EDIT AGAIN - Sorry it was Hosea 6:2.

 

Yeah, looks like it. :smilewinkgrin:

JJ, I'm sure that one vote there is yours. :tongue3:

 

Actually it's not, but just to make you happy I'll vote right now.

EDIT: Now there I voted and now there are two. I guess you're going to accuse me of voting twice now eh?

By the way I didn't vote earlier, because I really don't fully agree with the second choice, because the kingdom is not a kingdom that is restricted to earth and Christians will not take part on the physical earth, but in the heavenly sphere where Satan and his current angels are ruling.

 

Jesus' primary objective is not on the poll. i have not voted.

he came to seek and to save that which is lost.
came to bring the sword not peace.
came to bring sinners unto righteousness. (might be wrong wording)
came to die on the cross and rise the third day and then ascend to his Father.

etc.

 

I guess the other vote must be a convert.

Nope. There is some kind of fancy technical mechanism that keeps us from voting twice. :smilewinkgrin: