Observation - The Miraculous Working of God

[GordonSlocum]

On September 20th, 1970 I made a life changing decision to accept the Grace of God and surrender my life to Christ.

From that time to now I have had a varied relationship with Calvinist, Arminians, and all in between ( I am a in betweener ).

Many of you reading this post might get upset to read it but others will know exactly from whence I speak.

In all the occasions I have had with Calvinist the miraculous is absence.

This is not an endorsement of the wholesale healing ministry I personally do not ascribe to this misuse of truth and ministry.

Over the years I have talked with people that were healed who love the Lord. Some healing was from drugs, alcohol, a life of deep sin and some healings from real physical disease. I can tell you that God healed my sister of arthritis. I can tell you that I have friends who have told me personally they were healed of cancer and other physical problems. We are talking about people who were going to a doctor and the illness or disease was documented, not some hearsay.

My point is this. Not once in my life as a believer have I heard of or witness the healing power of God in the Calvinist camp. People coming to Christ in their churches are virtually absent.

You must understand that what I am saying is not an endorsement of the endless barrage of TV wholesale healing ministries.

The churches that are growing are not Calvinist. They are churches that believe man is free to receive Christ or reject Him. We may not necessarily all believe the same but a genuine love for Christ abides in our hearts.

I have my view on why in my life's experience this is happening.

(1) Among real born again Calvinist there is a dismissal of the miraculous as I have mentioned.
(2) Among Calvinist the emphasis if self gratification in the philosophical approach to Scripture and what I call a false Christian intellectualism.

Calvinist churches are mainly made up of proselytes and a few new converts.

A man I know ask me to come and live in His home. He was enslaved to alcohol all his life. The pastor never gave up on him. One day he surrendered to Christ and was saved and miraculous healed in a split second form his addiction to alcohol. Read my post clearly please. No withdrawal, No DTs (shakes). This is just one example.

There is a very good example of God's miraculous working in our day in time. If you are interested you can go to First Baptist Church of Woodstock and watch and listen to the personal testimony of Kurt and Lori Salierno and if you can deny the truth then you are truly dead and perhaps lost.

Here is the web side if you are interested.

http://www.fbcw.org/media/mediacente...l?detail&id=19

God is using Churches that are not bound by the miss guided doctrine of Calvinism.

This post is not intended to be mean and hateful. I have no such motive or thought. I can honestly say I love everyone. I do however, deplore, the false teaching called Calvinism.

A Bible Professor of mine told me that He won an Islamic man to Christ in his home land. His family gave him a going away meal. They poisoned him. He did not die, He did not drop dead. All his relatives got up and ran out of the tent declaring He has special powers form God.

Do you need to trust in Christ? While on others He is waiting He won't pass you by unless you brush Him off. It is your choice. Will you harden your heart or will you believe? Will you persist on following a false system or will you surrender to the freedom in Christ that can be yours?

 

[pinoybaptist]

I've got news for you, Gordon Slocum
I am not a Calvinist.
In fact, Calvinists here would probably shun me as ultra-Calvinist because though I adhere to and preach the Doctrine of Grace, I do not believe in the need for an elect child of God to hear the gospel just so the Holy Spirit can work His regenerating power on him/her. To me, the gospel is just what the word means- good news, and good news do not make any event happen, it is good news of an event that already happened.

Having said that, I dare you to name any Calvinist on this board that do not believe in the miraculous physical healing power of Christ, then and now, and who will also deny that even today Christ can reach out and do an exceptional manifestation of His grace on an individual.

Name the Calvinist on this board.
Be specific.

Having said that, let me share to you some stories of my own.

My personal testimony:

1. Born Roman Catholic;
2. Born out of wedlock;
3. Raised by grandparents;
4. When grandparents died, shuttled between dad, mom, aunt, uncle, and friends;
5. Practically grew up in the streets, learned to live a double life, good boy and student at home, gang leader outside the home, until discovered by my dad, who was a cop, and did he do something about it ?
6. At 16, sin weighed so heavily on me that I started searching for the "true church". Saw nothing but hypocrisy in churches. Turned away from religion;
7. At 20, tried to go back to college, turned away from gangs, and fell in with activists;
8. At 23, full blown political activist, marching against US-Marcos dictatoship in the Philippines, and married;
9. At 26, atheist, Marxist, working underground agains the dictatorship;
10. At 27, escaped capture by government intelligence units;
11. At 27, was converted in a Baptist church in one of the southern cities in my country, surrendered to authorities, kept in detention for six months the results of which were a few broken ribs, and a badly healed left thumb from being hung by the thumbs, swung, and hit with a rubber bat, until a good Roman Catholic intelligence colonel decided to take me under his wings because of an uncle of mine whom he knew;
12. Never went back to any of those things that are in my past;
13. Did still commit sins;
14. Still in Christ despite them.

My baby half-brother's testimony:

1. 12 years younger than myself;
2. grew up in an entirely different generation, orphaned by our father at 13;
3. burned up his high school, and became a father, at 14;
4. drug addict at 15;
5. gang member at 16;
6. mainliner at 18. means he injects his drug directly into his femoral;
7. heavy user at 18. means he downs uppers and downers and shoots up, smokes weed, all in one session;
8. at 20, he was sitting in his room, coming down from a high, and was thinking how much of a mess his life is, cries out that if there is a God will He please help him out of this mess, goes to sleep, wakes up feeling "different", goes out to the street, meets a buddy who asks him if he wants to shoot up, answers I don't need that s**t no more, and goes to our mom, asks for her Bible, and starts reading, and reading, and reading....
9. At 21, a member of a tent ministry.

My baby half-sister's testimony:

1. At 23 married but sleeping around;
2. Engaged in wife-and-husband swappping...this I did not know personally, but was her testimony to me;
3. heavy smoker, heavy drinker;
4. one morning woke up from a hangover, felt so depressed, cleaned up, dressed up, got in bed, with a razor in hand, to cut her wrists, when she felt something hard under the bed, felt for it, and pulled out a Bible which somebody gave her, she forgot who;
5. Started reading it, couldn't put it down, read Ephesians 2, and cried out to God for mercy;

Somebody I know's testimony:

1. Like myself a gang member, and leader;
2. Cut up a lot of men in his time, killed a lot in many a prison riot, and got cut up himself, many times;
3. became an activist while in prison;
4. sodomizer;
5. again got hold of a Bible sometime in his prison term;
6. started reading the Bible by himself;
7. got converted and started preaching in prison;
8. God worked a miracle on his life and softened the heart of the dictator who granted him pardon although his prison term was life without parole;
9. became a city councilor;
10. currently pastoring a non-Calvinist church.

Another guy I know's testimony:

1. Born in a communist armed rebel camp in the hinterlands of the Philippines;
2. Raised a Marxist by hard liner Marxist parents;
3. Became a communist assassin at a very young age;
4. Killed a number of military, political, and civilian targets;
5. Was captured;
6. While awaiting trial one of the guards gave him a Bible;
7. Started reading on his own;
8. Experienced conversion, and owned up to all his crimes;
9. Rescued and defended two of his guards when communist hitmen ambushed their convoy on their way to court, in a bid to free one of their comrades who was captured by government agents and being taken to court for preliminary hearings.
10. because of his heroic act, gained full pardon, and now pastors a non-Calvinist church in the same area he operated in as a rebel. Least that's what I understand.

 

[pinoybaptist]

And now the miracle.

The miracle is that God loved these individuals despite who they are. And the Bible says He knew them, and loved them, before they knew Him. Read your Bible and find out for yourself.
So much so that He wrote their names in the Book of Life before He even hung the first star.
He foreknew them, predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son, called them, justified them, and glorified them.
None of them would have come to Him on their own.

I wouldn't have come to Him on my own. But He worked His will on me that I may do His will. Same with my brother, sister, and the other two.

Why should I turn to a God whose followers cannot even seem to agree on anything about Him, when at a young, hormone-raging aid I had all the women I wanted, and money was no object ?

Why should I turn to a God who doesn't seem to care about the poor, exploited masses of Filipino people being trampled upon by the dictatorship under the blessings of good old Uncle Sam as long as what he does will not result in a direct threat to his own military and economic interests ?

But I did. At an early age, I felt so sinful, and hopelessly lost that I thought the only resort was to find the "true church", which I couldn't, so I turned away from religion.

But guess what, God has not turned away from His people.

Don't I believe that God can miraculously heal people ?

Oh, but, I do.

And I am sure the Calvinists here do.

Just that how do you sort out which is God's and which isn't, since the devil also duplicates what God does in most cases ?

So, I guess we stick to what can be Scripturally shown as applying to everybody, and which is that which can be called, "relative".

God can make someone dream a dream He sent, even today, but does He do it as much as He did during Old Testament times ?

 

[GordonSlocum]

And now the miracle.

The miracle is that God loved these individuals despite who they are. And the Bible says He knew them, and loved them, before they knew Him. Read your Bible and find out for yourself.
So much so that He wrote their names in the Book of Life before He even hung the first star.
He foreknew them, predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son, called them, justified them, and glorified them.
None of them would have come to Him on their own.

I wouldn't have come to Him on my own. But He worked His will on me that I may do His will. Same with my brother, sister, and the other two.

Why should I turn to a God whose followers cannot even seem to agree on anything about Him, when at a young, hormone-raging aid I had all the women I wanted, and money was no object ?

Why should I turn to a God who doesn't seem to care about the poor, exploited masses of Filipino people being trampled upon by the dictatorship under the blessings of good old Uncle Sam as long as what he does will not result in a direct threat to his own military and economic interests ?

But I did. At an early age, I felt so sinful, and hopelessly lost that I thought the only resort was to find the "true church", which I couldn't, so I turned away from religion.

But guess what, God has not turned away from His people.

Don't I believe that God can miraculously heal people ?

Oh, but, I do.

And I am sure the Calvinists here do.

Just that how do you sort out which is God's and which isn't, since the devil also duplicates what God does in most cases ?

So, I guess we stick to what can be Scripturally shown as applying to everybody, and which is that which can be called, "relative".

God can make someone dream a dream He sent, even today, but does He do it as much as He did during Old Testament times ?

All the angles in Heaven and all true born again believers rejoice in your salvation and the salvation of your brother, sister and acquaintances.

What happened to you and your family is full proof that Calvinism is false. All believers freely believe.

John Chapter 1 and verse 9 clearly states the truth and whosoever will puts the decision on our backs not on God. We must believe to be regenerated.

I praise God for your salvation but your understanding of God's word is in error.

God has your soul and Calvinistic philosophy has your mind.

 

[pinoybaptist]

No, what happened to my family is full proof that God chooses His own in a humanity whose will was corrupted by the sin of one man, and therefore unable to turn to Him in accordance to His will.

Because while my brother, my sister, myself and my stepmom, their mom, have all come to know Christ, who first knew us, none of our other relatives did.

It doesn't matter that we pounded them with God's word day and night, it doesn't matter that all of us who are in Christ have given up almost every worldly vice they knew we had, it doesn't matter that we became as meek as anything or anyone they ever knew where before they knew each of us as bad boys or bad girls, it doesn't matter that we never missed church, or that we prayed, or that we did everything that is good and righteous before an evil, adulterous, and waywayd world, they stuck to their religions, their philosophies, their own ways.

Why ?

Because like Jesus Christ said to His disciples: Unto you it is given....unto them it is not given.

My dad is probably not one of God's own. And neither is my aunt who died. Nor my uncles, nor cousins.

But the plain and simple fact is: I don't know about them.

Fact is: I don't even know about my brother, sister, or stepmom.

I can hear them, I can see them, but I don't know if they are of God's people.

I know about me. The Spirit bore witness to my spirit.

He did not bear witness about them, or you, or my co-members in church.

 

[GordonSlocum]

When pastors who are Calvinist really teach what they think and believe from the pulpit their church dies. This happens all the time.

If every Calvinistic Pastor stood up in the pulpit and clearly told the church what they believe the would either be fired or the people would leave.


Gordon

 

[npetreley]

When pastors who are Calvinist really teach what they think and believe from the pulpit their church dies. This happens all the time.

If every Calvinistic Pastor stood up in the pulpit and clearly told the church what they believe the would either be fired or the people would leave.

Gordon

Spurgeon was a Calvinist and preached his views very clearly. Just read some of his sermons.

From http://www.spurgeon.org/aboutsp.htm

Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92) was England's best-known preacher for most of the second half of the nineteenth century. In 1854, just four years after his conversion, Spurgeon, then only 20, became pastor of London's famed New Park Street Church (formerly pastored by the famous Baptist theologian John Gill). The congregation quickly outgrew their building, moved to Exeter Hall, then to Surrey Music Hall. In these venues Spurgeon frequently preached to audiences numbering more than 10,000—all in the days before electronic amplification. In 1861 the congregation moved permanently to the newly constructed Metropolitan Tabernacle.

That doesn't seem to fit your description of what would happen.

 

[GordonSlocum]

That doesn't seem to fit your description of what would happen.[/QUOTE]

npetreley - Please, no dead men OK. For every Living Calvinist who pastors a church today that you can claim is evangelistic I can name you 100s of others that are not Calvinist.

Lets get real. Forget dead men and tell me about your church and other churches that are evangelistic. "Go ye therefore into all the world" also Paul told T to do the work of an evangelist. Evangelize the lost. What does I Timothy 2:1-- Say. Pray for the salvation of the lost - all lost. What Calvinist Church is actively in teaching evangelism and missions and growing from New Converts not proselytized believers from other churches? Make me a list and demonstrate to everyone on here the content of their ministry and their outreach.

Gordon

 

[npetreley]

Please, no dead men OK.

Oh, I see. In other words, no talking about anyone except who conforms to what is most prevalent today. Anything that isn't prevalent today would be rejected because it must be wrong. Just like when Luther was wrong because he didn't go with what was prevalent in his day.

So people like Spurgeon don't count because he preached the Gospel along with Calvinism at a time other than ours.

Now, tell me why D. James Kennedy, John MacArthur, Steve Brown, Albert Mohler and others don't count. I'm sure you have a good reason.

 

[GordonSlocum]

Oh, I see. In other words, no talking about anyone except who conforms to what is most prevalent today. Anything that isn't prevalent today would be rejected because it must be wrong. Just like when Luther was wrong because he didn't go with what was prevalent in his day.

So people like Spurgeon don't count because he preached the Gospel along with Calvinism at a time other than ours.

Now, tell me why D. James Kennedy, John MacArthur, Steve Brown, Albert Mohler and others don't count. I'm sure you have a good reason.

D. James Kennedy is the only one I respect of these you list. All the rest are dead beats to me including R.C.S.

 

[npetreley]

D. James Kennedy is the only one I respect of these you list. All the rest are dead beats to me including R.C.S.

And who you respect amounts to what again?