Obstinate Learner

[NetChaplain]

“If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Heb 10:26 KJV).” “If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins” (NLT).

If it were said that one received the truth (the Gospel), it could be correctly conceived that one believed and accepted salvation. But this passage refers to, not the truth but the “knowledge of the truth.” Can one reborn (saved) continue to live sinning intentionally—as was prior to rebirth? No! This would prove the absence of rebirth. The design of the passage intends the sense of one coming to know what the Gospel is, and continues to willingly live in sin, without receiving the Gospel—but only receiving (discovering) the knowledge of it.

“It had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness (receive the knowledge of the truth), than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment” (2Pe 2:21). “They would not be guilty if I had not come and spoken to them. But now they have no excuse for their sin” (Jhn 15:22, 24).

“And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more” (Luk 12:47, 48). This answers to the saying that “proportionate to a man's light is his guilt!”

 

[Alex2165]

You presented very good subject Net, and important one.


Indeed, knowing the Truth and not follow it is inexcusable offense.


2Peter 2.20-22

20.If after they have escaped the defilement (ruining) of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

21.It would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than having known it, to turn away from the Holy Commandment delivered to them.

22.It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit, " and, "A sow ("a pig" - GNB, Russian) after washing returns to wallowing in the mire." (Proverb of Solomon 26.11).


Hebrews 6.4-6

4.In the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the Heavenly Gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5.and have tasted the good Word of GOD and the powers of the age to come,

6.and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of GOD and put Him to open shame.


These verses and some others similar ones, completely disprove and contradict the false doctrine (particularly of Baptist) which said that those who are "saved" are "saved" no matter what.


Only GOD knows who are saved and who are not, but human beings should concentrate not on salvation itself but on the way to salvation and how to achieve it, and not foolishly declare themselves as saved without knowing the will and opinion of GOD concerning them.


For that reason it said:


Proverbs 14.12

12."There is a way that seems right to a person, but its end is the way to death."


Proverbs 16.2.25

2.All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, but the Lord weights the motives.

25.There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.


It is also good to remember a parable of Jesus Christ concerning sower (Mark 4.1-20). The parable precisely indicates how people receive the Word of GOD (Gospel - The Truth) and how they handle it and implemented in their lives.


This means that to be enlightened by the Truth does not means automatic salvation, but keeping the Truth and live by it throughout entire life spend will certainly lead to the Kingdom of GOD and everlasting life.


This means that even those who are at first have been truly saved and follow the Lord in the beginning, but fail at some point in time, they surely lost their salvation due to own corruption, because nothing corrupted will enter the Kingdom of GOD.


So the point is, if you know the Truth, keep the Truth entire length of you life and do not fail, because the Truth cannot saved those who are no longer in it.

 

[1689Dave]

You presented very good subject Net, and important one.


Indeed, knowing the Truth and not follow it is inexcusable offense.


2Peter 2.20-22

20.If after they have escaped the defilement (ruining) of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

21.It would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than having known it, to turn away from the Holy Commandment delivered to them.

22.It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit, " and, "A sow ("a pig" - GNB, Russian) after washing returns to wallowing in the mire." (Proverb of Solomon 26.11).


Hebrews 6.4-6

4.In the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the Heavenly Gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5.and have tasted the good Word of GOD and the powers of the age to come,

6.and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of GOD and put Him to open shame.


These verses and some others similar ones, completely disprove and contradict the false doctrine (particularly of Baptist) which said that those who are "saved" are "saved" no matter what.


Only GOD knows who are saved and who are not, but human beings should concentrate not on salvation itself but on the way to salvation and how to achieve it, and not foolishly declare themselves as saved without knowing the will and opinion of GOD concerning them.


For that reason it said:


Proverbs 14.12

12."There is a way that seems right to a person, but its end is the way to death."


Proverbs 16.2.25

2.All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, but the Lord weights the motives.

25.There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.


It is also good to remember a parable of Jesus Christ concerning sower (Mark 4.1-20). The parable precisely indicates how people receive the Word of GOD (Gospel - The Truth) and how they handle it and implemented in their lives.


This means that to be enlightened by the Truth does not means automatic salvation, but keeping the Truth and live by it throughout entire life spend will certainly lead to the Kingdom of GOD and everlasting life.


This means that even those who are at first have been truly saved and follow the Lord in the beginning, but fail at some point in time, they surely lost their salvation due to own corruption, because nothing corrupted will enter the Kingdom of GOD.


So the point is, if you know the Truth, keep the Truth entire length of you life and do not fail, because the Truth cannot saved those who are no longer in it.

If you believe in Christ, He says you have eternal life. Eternal life is without beginning or end. It's not "once saved always saved", it's "always saved" in God's plan in contrast to "always lost". Those who fall away were "always lost" and never meant to be saved.

 

[Alex2165]

I am not questioning Eternal Life, I am questioning those who claimed to be saved for Eternal Life here on Earth.


I heard many of such claims and I looked at these people closely, and I knew many of them personally, and absolutely was nothing suggesting in them that they are actually deserved to be saved or even have right to be among saved.


So let not mix oranges and apples together Dave.


If a person deserves to be saved, the Lord GOD surely will save such person for Eternal Life, because it is up to GOD, and not up to us to declare who are saved and who are not, who deserves Eternal Life and who does not.


There are many hypocrites among Christians, and they always take Words of Christ and some places of the Bible from its context and applying them to their false doctrines. And so they did also to the meaning of salvation.


And of course will be the time then all their hypocrisies will exposed by GOD to their own shame and to their own demise, and the justice of the Lord concerning such people will prevail.


And those hypocrites who are claimed to be "saved" will stand on the left side of Christ, because they clamed to be saved but done nothing to deserve it.



Matthew 25.31-46

31."But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32.And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,

33.and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. (Zechariah 10.3)

34.Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come you, who are blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35.I was hungry and you gave Me to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you invited Me in,
36.naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me.'

37.Then the righteous will answer saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38.And when did we see You a stranger and invite You in, or naked and clothe You?
39.And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40.And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

41.Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me accursed ones into the Eternal Fire, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels. (Matthew 13.49-50)

42.I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink,

43.I was a stranger and you did not invite Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

44.Then they themselves also will answer saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

45.Then He will answer them saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

46.And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into Eternal Life."


Matthew 7.13-14.21-23
13."Enter through the narrow gate, the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.

14.The gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

21.Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

22.On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’

23.Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you, go away from me you evildoers.’


They are many other similar statements like these in the Bible. So what you see here Dave and what kind conclusion and lesson you can draw from these statements?


Do Salvation and Eternal Life comes to those who only run their mouths but do nothing in the name of the Lord, or those who have strong faith, fear of GOD, and do work for the glory of the Lord their GOD? What you think?

 

[1689Dave]

I am not questioning Eternal Life, I am questioning those who claimed to be saved for Eternal Life here on Earth.


I heard many of such claims and I looked at these people closely, and I knew many of them personally, and absolutely was nothing suggesting in them that they are actually deserved to be saved or even have right to be among saved.


So let not mix oranges and apples together Dave.


If a person deserves to be saved, the Lord GOD surely will save such person for Eternal Life, because it is up to GOD, and not up to us to declare who are saved and who are not, who deserves Eternal Life and who does not.


There are many hypocrites among Christians, and they always take Words of Christ and some places of the Bible from its context and applying them to their false doctrines. And so they did also to the meaning of salvation.


And of course will be the time then all their hypocrisies will exposed by GOD to their own shame and to their own demise, and the justice of the Lord concerning such people will prevail.


And those hypocrites who are claimed to be "saved" will stand on the left side of Christ, because they clamed to be saved but done nothing to deserve it.



Matthew 25.31-46

31."But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32.And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,

33.and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. (Zechariah 10.3)

34.Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come you, who are blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35.I was hungry and you gave Me to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you invited Me in,
36.naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me.'

37.Then the righteous will answer saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38.And when did we see You a stranger and invite You in, or naked and clothe You?
39.And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40.And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

41.Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me accursed ones into the Eternal Fire, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels. (Matthew 13.49-50)

42.I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink,

43.I was a stranger and you did not invite Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

44.Then they themselves also will answer saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

45.Then He will answer them saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

46.And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into Eternal Life."


Matthew 7.13-14.21-23
13."Enter through the narrow gate, the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.

14.The gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

21.Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

22.On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’

23.Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you, go away from me you evildoers.’


They are many other similar statements like these in the Bible. So what you see here Dave and what kind conclusion and lesson you can draw from these statements?


Do Salvation and Eternal Life comes to those who only run their mouths but do nothing in the name of the Lord, or those who have strong faith, fear of GOD, and do work for the glory of the Lord their GOD? What you think?

Do you actually think some people "deserve" to be saved? This isn't even Christianity in its most obscure form.

 

[Silverhair]

If you believe in Christ, He says you have eternal life. Eternal life is without beginning or end. It's not "once saved always saved", it's "always saved" in God's plan in contrast to "always lost". Those who fall away were "always lost" and never meant to be saved.

>>If you believe in Christ, He says you have eternal life. Eternal life is without beginning or end. It's not "once saved always saved", it's "always saved" in God's plan in contrast to "always lost". Those who fall away were "always lost" and never meant to be saved.<<

Even though 2Pe 2:20-21 says that these people were indeed saved and then turn away you contend that can’t be right and that the context of Heb 10:24-26 was not intended as a warning to believers about dangers of deliberate sin but was said to those that were not saved at all.

What sticks out for me in these to passages is

if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth Heb 10:26
The context {Heb 10:24-26} would indicate that this was written for believers as a warning.

and

they have escaped the pollution's of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, 2Pe 2:20

And we can know that this is referring to saved

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them 2Pe2:21

These are not people that have just heard the gospel but are those that have accepted the gospel and yet at a latter time reject the truth and fall away from the truth.

You make the bold statement >>Those who fall away were "always lost" and never meant to be saved.<<

I am curious as to what you base your assertion upon?