Oh, Yikes! Bush told by his Church to Repent!

[LadyEagle]

Methodist leaders to Bush: Repent
Clergy claim president's policies 'incompatible' with church teachings

--------------------------------------
Posted: June 6, 2003
5:00 p.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A group of leaders from President George W. Bush's denomination, the United Methodist Church, have signed a magazine ad asking the chief executive to "repent" of what they consider policies "incompatible" with Christian teaching, reports the Christian Times.

The group of 120 signatories to the document, entitled "A Prophetic Epistle from United Methodists Calling Our Brother George W. Bush to Repent," includes seven United Methodist Church bishops.

"It is our judgment that some policies advanced by your administration give evidence of the spiritual forces of wickedness that exist in our society today," the ad read, according to the report.

The signers also include two UMC leaders who were arrested during an anti-war protest in Washington, D.C., this year. They claim Bush is "threatening the very earth and all its inhabitants with open discussion of the usage of nuclear weapons."

The Methodist leaders don't think much of Bush's domestic policies, either, saying they are "incongruent with Jesus' teaching" because they allegedly lack the kind of compassion Jesus taught, said the Christian Times report.

Mark Tooley, director of the United Methodist committee of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, tells the paper it is the 120 who signed the document who are veering from the church's teachings – not Bush.

"Bush is supposedly a bad Christian and a bad Methodist because, like most Methodists, he does not agree with these church officials in their equation of compassion with a large federal welfare state and in their opposition to a strong military defense for America," Tooley said. "These United Methodist officials are effectively telling the president he is not a good Christian because his policies do not match their own left-wing beliefs."

The leaders include men who have denied the divinity of Jesus Christ and endorse same-sex marriage, Tooley told the paper.

According to the report, the White House says the president respects the views of those placing the ad but does not agree with them,.

Link:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32946

Oh, my. Just surfing around, waiting for my Norton Anti-Virus to run on a Friday night....when I should be at the grocery store.

Of course this is from World Nut Daily, so liberals shouldn't put too much creedence in this report! LOL!

 

[Ben W]

Is this denomination a Bible Based Christian fellowship?

Do they approve of things that other Fundamentalist type groups may disagree with?

 

[Johnv]

I've noticed a historical trend. When a religious organization insists that a public official repent for some policy or another, it's typically less about the president and more about bringing attention to that religious group. We see political activist groups doing that with officials all the time. I rarely give these groups the attention they seek.

BTW - notice that it's not the UMC that's doing such, but "a group of leaders" from the UMC. The implication is that the UMC is doing so, but a little reading between the lines, especially when it comes from a tabloid such as WND, is in order.

 

[Elnora]

The U.M.C. here allows homosexuals to meet in their church. Very liberal thinking. Not to be confused with the Free Methodists. They call homosexuality sin and do not allow it in their church. I have relatives in each. The UM member was in the church for about 20 years before hearing the message of salvation, from the rest of us. Then we began to see changes in her life.

From my observations of the UMC's purpose is more for social reasons than spiritual.

 

[Ben W]

So it appears that the point that I was driving at is the case.

They are calling him into repentence when they are not neccesaraly any better themselves.

What was it that Jesus said about pulling the plank out of your own eye first?

 

[LadyEagle]

Exactly, Ben. Notice this "group" is comprised of "ministers" who are very, very liberal.

 

[RomOne16]

Only one thing for the President to do:

REPENT
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.....and become a Baptist.

 

[Ben W]

So which Baptist denomination should have him?

 

[Roy]

Originally posted by Ben W:
So which Baptist denomination should have him?

Cooperative Baptist Fellowship; perhaps if he wants to be a non-repentant Baptist.

Roy

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Originally posted by Ben W:
So which Baptist denomination should have him?

I'll take him!

 

[donnA]

I think the UMC needs to do some repenting before they call on anyone else to repent. And biblically, aren't they supost to take care of this kind of church business in private, and then bring it before their church, not the entire public.

 

[Ps104_33]

Arent the United Methodists the ones who took the blood out of their hymnbook and didnt like "for such a worm as I..." in Amazing Grace? Just because a church has the name Christian in front of it doesnt mean a thing.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Ps104_33:
Arent the United Methodists the ones who took the blood out of their hymnbook and didnt like "for such a worm as I..." in Amazing Grace? Just because a church has the name Christian in front of it doesnt mean a thing.

To be fair, the word "wretch" in the hymn "Amazing Grace" refers to a worm, so the alternate text is reasonable. I don't subscribe to hymnal theology, and have no problem with updated ot alternate hymn texts. Otherwise, we'd still be singing "A Mighty Fortress" and "Silent Night" in German. And as one who speaks some German, I can tell you that the Old English words don't remotely match the original German. Additionally, I know of at least two other alternate texts to "A Mighty Fortress". As for Silent Night, ask a a first grader what a "round yon virgin" is, and see what answers you get

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Ps104_33:
Arent the United Methodists the ones who took the blood out of their hymnbook and didnt like "for such a worm as I..." in Amazing Grace? Just because a church has the name Christian in front of it doesnt mean a thing.

I did not know that the song, "Amazing Grace" had a line about us being a worm. The term "wretch" (hopefully this is undestood to mean our life before salvation and not after we are saved.)
is still in the song book to the best of our knowledge.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I think he meant the song "At the Cross". It used to go:

"Would he devote that sacred head
for such a worm as I"

It was changed to:

"Would he devote that sacred head
for a sinner such as I"

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I think he meant the song "At the Cross". It used to go:

"Would he devote that sacred head
for such a worm as I"

It was changed to:

"Would he devote that sacred head
for a sinner such as I"

The term sinner describes our life before we come to Jesus better that nhe term "worm'.
The term sinner is one who misses the mark.
A worm is a creepy crawly thing that we fish with.
Man was made in the image of God and was not made as a worm.
When Adam fell man took on a sinful nature. Praise God that when we are in Christ we are a new creation and no longer full of a sinful nature.
We never were a worm.
If the Methodist took the term worm out of their hymnal then good for the them.

 

[Hardsheller]

The problem with hymnody and with confessional theology is that Sinful man is getting better all the time as new revisions and updates are made.

Man's tendency is to elevate himself and this is reflected in his modern doctrinal statements.

The following link will take you to a great article that deals with this problem.

The Ascent of Lost Man in Southern Baptist Preaching

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Hardsheller:
The problem with hymnody and with confessional theology is that Sinful man is getting better all the time as new revisions and updates are made.

Man's tendency is to elevate himself and this is reflected in his modern doctrinal statements.

The following link will take you to a great article that deals with this problem.

The Ascent of Lost Man in Southern Baptist Preaching

It is to the saints that the scripture is written to sing to ourselves in Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. The saints are not worms neither are they a bunch of sinners. When Jesus comes into our life he makes us a new creation, and makes us to be "the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus."
Lost people are what they are (Lost) .
God Convicts sinners to come to him and to become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and to be accepted in the beloved.
Our hymns should reflect the work that God has done in the life of the saints and give us reason to rejoice.
Lost man is not better off they are lost. But to contrast the abundant life in Christ Jesus does not make the sinful person better until they are no longer lost.
The old worm theology makes it sound like Jesus did not do anything for a lost person. I heard a person recently that I considered to be saved to tell me that he is the worst sinner that ever lived. I ask if he wa bragging or complaining and he got mad at me. He told me that we are all sinners. I told him that if that is true that Jesus died in vain.
Jesus paid a great price to make me the righteousness in Christ Jesus and I will not dishonor Jesus by calling myself or any other saint an old sinner.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by atestring:
I did not know that the song, "Amazing Grace" had a line about us being a worm. The term "wretch" (hopefully this is undestood to mean our life before salvation and not after we are saved.)

Yes, it's one of those "Jeopardy" trivia items. "Wretch" was used to refer to a worm, referring to the conditions in which they love and breed, as "wretched". "Wretched refuse" was waste or garbage that had become infested with worms". It also became a metaphore for anything that was cast aside due to its vileness. The phrase "wretched refuse" can even be found at the base of the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me....

We now return this thread to its original topic.....

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hardsheller:
The problem with hymnody and with confessional theology is that Sinful man is getting better all the time as new revisions and updates are made.

Man's tendency is to elevate himself and this is reflected in his modern doctrinal statements.

The following link will take you to a great article that deals with this problem.

The Ascent of Lost Man in Southern Baptist Preaching

It is to the saints that the scripture is written to sing to ourselves in Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. The saints are not worms neither are they a bunch of sinners. When Jesus comes into our life he makes us a new creation, and makes us to be "the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus."
Lost people are what they are (Lost) .
God Convicts sinners to come to him and to become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and to be accepted in the beloved.
Our hymns should reflect the work that God has done in the life of the saints and give us reason to rejoice.
Lost man is not better off they are lost. But to contrast the abundant life in Christ Jesus does not make the sinful person better until they are no longer lost.
The old worm theology makes it sound like Jesus did not do anything for a lost person. I heard a person recently that I considered to be saved to tell me that he is the worst sinner that ever lived. I ask if he wa bragging or complaining and he got mad at me. He told me that we are all sinners. I told him that if that is true that Jesus died in vain.
Jesus paid a great price to make me the righteousness in Christ Jesus and I will not dishonor Jesus by calling myself or any other saint an old sinner. </font>[/QUOTE]Read the Article, Atestring.

We're not talking about emotional and experiential Christianity, we're talking about what is true and what is false Biblically.

We are righteous in Jesus Christ but that does not change what we were before we were saved.

The hymn At the Cross speaks of the Pre-Salvation State when it used the word "worm". The song also testifies to what the "worm" found at the cross of Jesus Christ and how the "worm" has been transformed into a person who has "received my sight and now I am happy all the day."

Give it a break - all of us were "worms" before we were saved.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.