Oil and Virgins

[Hope of Glory]

I am not going to preach the unsaved are going to heaven.

And neither has anyone here. I challenge you to show where they have.

You remind me of a child who sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts "LA LA LA" when he doesn't want to hear what is being said.

There are those here who see that the virgins had oil, and want to discuss the implications of that. That was what I requested in the OP. So, instead of spreading lies like the one I quoted above, why not let us have a reasoned discussion based on what is presented?

I really do not understand why you feel the need to spread lies. If your position is so righteous, why would you make outlandish claims like the one above?

No one here in this discussion has one time even suggested that the unsaved will be anywhere other than the lake of fire.

What we are discussing are the implications behind the five foolish virgins running out of oil, because their lamps were going out.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In the original thread both you and JJump stated that the five virgins were not unsaved. All saved people will be a part of the kingdom of heaven. I submit to you these virgins were just as lost as Herod himself.

 

[J. Jump]

It's still amazing to me that even through SFIC and his wife Linda have clearly been shown that "heaven" is not our final destination they still cling to that church tradition. It amazes me that SFIC and others have clearly been shown the error of their way and still cling to their church tradition.

SFIC I notice that you haven't even bothered to comment on the numbers that are used. There were 10 virigins which is a number of completion of that which is in view. This was same type of people all in the same shape until they leave to meet the bridegroom.

Then they become two groups of five. And five means grace. Both groups had experienced God's grace.

Again why do you think the Holy Spirit used five and five?

There's just so many things that you overlook. There are just so many things that you read into the Scripture to get it to say what you want it to say.

The next parable tells us the same thing this one does.

The theme is found in the OT and NT alike and you just clearly deny it all so that you don't have to tell people you have been wrong all these years.

Show some Scripture support from the OT where ALL saved people go to heaven.

The generation that died in the wilderness certainly didn't make it to the promised land. And they were saved. How are you going to get that to mesh with your every saved person makes it theory?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It is amazing how JJump and Hope of Glory want to include the five foolish virgins as part of God's Wonderful Grace when the Bridegroom clearly says in scripture, 'I know you not.'

Yes, many do say the number 5 means grace. If that is the case, then the 5 foolish virgins are a picture of the unsaved missing out on Grace.

Do you not believe the Bridegroom's own words, 'I know you not'?

Also, since I do have a book here on Numbers and their Significance in the Bible, it is interesting that this book says completion is associated with the numbers 7, and 9, and that 10 represents 'Testimony,' we clearly see that we are seeing a picture of the Testimony of 10 people, five being wise and saved, five being foolish and unsaved.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So, is it safe to assume that you are KJVO, even to the point of rejecting what the KJV translators said?

I am KJVO to the point of rejecting the modern translations that do not line up with the old paths, that clearly twist the scripture to say something it does not say. Verse three is a classic example of that.

All the way back between 1380 and 1384, Wyclyffe translated the Bible into the English language of that day. That Bible lines up with the KJB except for spelling changes.

No, I not KJVO to the point of rejecting what the KJV translators said. I read many versions. I have many versions in my possession. I also have access to several more online whenever I want.

I preach the KJV because I find it to be more accurate than any other version in our language today.

 

[webdog]

No, on the contrary. I have shown repeatedly that I cling to the truth that is in God's Holy Word.

Not sure where, but it's rarely here on the BB...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not sure where, but it's rarely here on the BB...

Open yer eyes.

 

[J. Jump]

It is amazing how JJump and Hope of Glory want to include the five foolish virgins as part of God's Wonderful Grace when the Bridegroom clearly says in scripture, 'I know you not.'

Well I'm going to speak for the both of us and HoG can correct me if I mis-speak for him, but it's not that we want to include them, it's that we are just seeking what the Bible says instead of putting our own ideas into the text.

Just because the phrase "I know you not," doesn't equate to you are unsaved. Salvation is not the context. Works and obedience are the context, so He does not know them in relation to their work, not in relation to their salvation!

Yes, many do say the number 5 means grace. If that is the case, then the 5 foolish virgins are a picture of the unsaved missing out on Grace.

There you go again reading into the text again. There were 10 virigins all the same. And both sets had experienced God's grace. We get no negative conotation at all. That's what SFIC is reading into the text.

Both groups were saved, but one group was prepared in relation to works and one group was unprepared in relation to works. It really is that simple.

Do you not believe the Bridegroom's own words, 'I know you not'?

Absolutely! I just don't accept your definition, becuase you place your own context on the passage instead of letting the Bible tell you what that means.

'Testimony,' we clearly see that we are seeing a picture of the Testimony of 10 people, five being wise and saved, five being foolish and unsaved.

Once again just assigning your own meanings to words again. Nowhere does it say that testimony is ONLY associated with saved and unsaved.

 

[Hope of Glory]

According to SFIC, the Kingdom of the Heavens is likened unto unsaved people. Interesting spin.

SFIC, I just posted from a version that is about 1500 hundred years older than the KJV, so you should reject the modern versions such as Wyclyffe and the KJV. I also posted a translator note from the KJV 1611 translators, so why don't you reject the modern version that you're using?

But, if you accept the KJV, why do you reject what they say about the passage?

Why, since you put the KJV translators on a pedestal of infallibility, do you reject what they say?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Once again just assigning your own meanings to words again. Nowhere does it say that testimony is ONLY associated with saved and unsaved.

Nowhere does it say the foolish took oil, nor does it say the wise took extra oil. Yet you assign your own meanings to words.-*


Also, whether one is saved or unsaved, their life is a testimony to who they serve. Whether the god of this world, or the One True God.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Why, since you put the KJV translators on a pedestal of infallibility, do you reject what they say?

Why do you reject the Words of Christ when He says 'I know you not.' It is not I who is putting the unsaved in heaven, but you when you deny the words, 'I know you not,' and say the five foolish virgins were saved.

 

[Hope of Glory]

So, you're saying that the Kingdom is likened unto unsaved people.

I do not deny, nor ignore the words of Jesus, but you cannot see past the plain words that are used to even get to that point. Without a foundation a building will fall. You are saying that the Kingdom is likened unto someone who is condemned to the lake of fire, and ignore the fact that their lamps were going out, even according to the infallible KJV translators, and you cannot answer what a prepositional phrase is, but you want to discuss something that comes even later?

Why do you think the Kingdom is likened unto unsaved people?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I am not saying the Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto unsaved people. There are both unsaved and saved in this parable. The ones who entered the Kingdom were the saved.

 

[J. Jump]

I am not saying the Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto unsaved people.

Yes as a matter of fact you are. You are saying that there are five saved and five unsaved. Here is the first verse (even quoted in your favorite translation):

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,

SFIC says the kingdom of heaven is like 5 saved and 5 unsaved.

There aren't going to be any unsaved folks in the kingdom of heaven SFIC, which again proves why this parable isn't speaking to eternal salvation.

The kingdom of heaven is ONLY likened unto saved people. There will be some saved people that will be prepared for the kingdom and there will be some saved people that will not be prepared for the kingdom.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There aren't going to be any unsaved folks in the kingdom of heaven SFIC, which again proves why this parable isn't speaking to eternal salvation.

You are correct that there will be no unsaved folks in the kingdom of heaven. That is why the Bridegroom would not open the door to the five foolish virgins. They were... unsaved.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Exactly! We can see the same in the parable of the wheat and the tares. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven was like a man who sowed good seed in a field. Then an enemy came and sowed tares amongst the wheat.

Uh-oh... do I see both unsaved and saved together before the harvest? Yep.

Same with the wedding. Both saved and unsaved together until the Bridegroom came and took the saved away.

 

[J. Jump]

You are correct that there will be no unsaved folks in the kingdom of heaven. That is why the Bridegroom would not open the door to the five foolish virgins. They were... unsaved.

No He won't open the door because they were unprepared, not unsaved. HUGE difference. Preparation has to do with works. And works have absolutely NOTHING to do with eternal salvation.

There is just no way to view this as a saved/unsaved parable. The kingdom of heaven which is spoken of here is not even eternal in length. This is speaking of the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

No way that you want to look at it supports a context of eternal salvation. That is plain to see in the next parable that follows.

Personal works is the context, which means eternal salvation is not.

 

[J. Jump]

Exactly! We can see the same in the parable of the wheat and the tares. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven was like a man who sowed good seed in a field. Then an enemy came and sowed tares amongst the wheat.

Uh-oh... do I see both unsaved and saved together before the harvest? Yep.

Same with the wedding. Both saved and unsaved together until the Bridegroom came and took the saved away.

So I guess you say that the judgment seat of Christ and the great white throne judgment are the same thing and that works really aren't what is being judged, but whether or not you were saved is what is being judged despite the fact that the Bible says that judgment happens before you die.

SFIC you just keep running into more and more contradictions every time to post.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Believers will be the only ones to stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Unsaved will stand before the Great White Throne.

Believers will be judged according to their works, this is true. But what they will lose is not entrance into the Kingdom, but rather the crowns that are promised to the believer for certain works in Christ's name.

The Crown of Life
The Crown of Rejoicing
The Crown of Righteousness
The Crown of Glory

That is the only loss the believer will suffer. He will not be refused entrance into God's Kingdom.

 

[J. Jump]

Believers will be the only ones to stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Unsaved will stand before the Great White Throne.

That's not what you said in the above post. You said they will all be together. Which is it? Together or separate?

Believers will be judged according to their works, this is true. But what they will lose is not entrance into the Kingdom, but rather the crowns that are promised to the believer for certain works in Christ's name.

Again we have a believe me becuase I said so statment from SFIC. Where is your Scripture backing that says only rewards will be lost?

The Bible says we will receive what we are due. So if you sow in the flesh you will be paid accordingly. Your payment is not a loss of reward.

Again there is just no Scriptural backing for what you are saying.