Oil and Virgins

[standingfirminChrist]

Why would Christ reject His own when the Bible says He will not?

If Christ's God's children are not to be in the Kingdom, just where are they going?

 

[J. Jump]

Why would Christ reject His own when the Bible says He will not?

Christ never says that He will not reject a saved person based on their unfaithfulness in regard to works. Quite the opposite is said. Now you are putting words into Christ's mouth that aren't there.

Please share Scripture that says ALL Christians will enter the kingdom of heaven. See you are missing the first step into this journey. You can't stop equating kingdom of heaven with eternity. They aren't the same thing. The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of heaven and eternity is eternity.

If Christ's God's children are not to be in the Kingdom, just where are they going?

That question is answered for us in the story of Abraham and Lot. Abraham was on top of the mountain in the presence of God, while Lot was on the side of the mountain in the place of darkness and shame away from the presence of God.

Now if you are looking for explicit details then you aren't going to find them. They just aren't given to us, because that's not to be our focus. Our focus is to be on Christ and being approved, not worried about what happens to us if we are disapproved.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

God is not going to reject any of His own. He said we are saved to the uttermost, and I stand on it. This teaching that God is somehow going to turn many that are truly His into outer darkness, turn them away from the Kingdom, is nothing but lies from the devil.

Paints a picture of an unloving God. One who, don't do enough works in this world, you will not be part of the Bride of Christ in the next. One that will profess to you, 'I never knew you' because you failed to do certain things.

'But, oh, they are saved,' they claim. If so, why are they denied access into God's kingdom? Does not make sense.

The truth of the matter is, ALL that the Father gives to the Son, He will keep. All true believers, the church, will enter that glorious kingdom. Those who are not of the church will spend eternity in hell because they rejected the only means of escape from those eternal flames.

No, God will not turn any true believer away from entrance into the kingdom of heaven. It is in the Word of God and one can take that to the bank as being a valid promissory note from God Himself.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

2 Timothy 4:18 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto His heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul clearly shows here that he is 'preserved unto His heavenly Kingdom'

Jesus said in John 17:12

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Now, Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, is He not? If He was able to keep all those the Father gave Him then, He is able to keep them now. As Paul said he was 'preserved unto that eternal kingdom', so we also who are in Christ Jesus will He preserve unto that eternal kingdom. He is no respector of persons.

 

[Hope of Glory]

The OP specifically stated that this thread was for those who had the eyes to see that the 5 foolish virgins had oil, but were running out.

So, SFiC, what do you think it means that they were running out?

Were they just not saved enough? Did they lose their salvation?

Since, in this parable, the Kingdom of the Heavens is likened unto 10 virgins, and according to you, 5 were unsaved, and you fail to distinguish between the Kingdom and spiritual salvation, just how is it that salvation is likened unto unsaved people?

Now, the OP stated that this was for those who had the eyes to see that the passage is explicitly stating that the 5 foolish virgins had oil, but were either running out or had run out. This is the discussion at hand.

Just what does it mean that they were running out?

 

[J. Jump]

This teaching that God is somehow going to turn many that are truly His into outer darkness, turn them away from the Kingdom, is nothing but lies from the devil.

Actually quite the opposite. This is exactly the same thing they said about Christ when He preached the same message, but it's amazing that people don't see that.

Paints a picture of an unloving God.

Again quite the opposite. It paints a picture of the Just God that God is. And not only that it does show that He still loves His children, because He disciplines them during the 1,000 years so that they will be ready to step into eternity. It continues to show that God is love.

Unfortunately God is love to most peole means that God is some cosmic grandfather that let's his children get away with whatever. And that is just not the reality of Who God is!

The truth of the matter is, ALL that the Father gives to the Son, He will keep.

That is absolutely true, but you have to leave that statement in its original context instead of supplying your own to make it say what you want it to.

All true believers, the church, will enter that glorious kingdom.

There's just no Scriptural support for what you are saying. If there is let's see it.

It is in the Word of God and one can take that to the bank as being a valid promissory note from God Himself.

Well people keep claiming its there, but no one has shown it yet. Might you be the first?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The OP specifically stated that this thread was for those who had the eyes to see that the 5 foolish virgins had oil, but were running out.

So, SFiC, what do you think it means that they were running out?

Were they just not saved enough? Did they lose their salvation?

Since, in this parable, the Kingdom of the Heavens is likened unto 10 virgins, and according to you, 5 were unsaved, and you fail to distinguish between the Kingdom and spiritual salvation, just how is it that salvation is likened unto unsaved people?

Now, the OP stated that this was for those who had the eyes to see that the passage is explicitly stating that the 5 foolish virgins had oil, but were either running out or had run out. This is the discussion at hand.

Just what does it mean that they were running out?

The Bible does not say they were running out of oil. It says their lamps are gone out. They went out because the foolish virgins were foolishly trying to light lamps that had no fuel to keep them burning. It is plain. They took no oil.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There are two kingdoms...

The kingdom of heaven, and the millenial kingdom. The millenial kingdom will only last for a thousand years. The kingdom of heaven will last for eternity. Hence, the saved will enter the kingdom of heaven for eternity.

He hath said, 'I will never leave you, nor forsake you.' Christ would certainly be lying if He did not allow all of His church into the kingdom. He certainly would be lying if He professed to those who had placed their faith in Him that He 'never knew them.'

It is clear these virgins were unsaved, since one cannot lose one's salvation. They may have had a form of Godliness (lamps),maybe even righteousness (their own robes); but denied the power thereof (oil) until it was too late.

 

[Hope of Glory]

The Bible does not say they were running out of oil. It says their lamps are gone out. They went out because the foolish virgins were foolishly trying to light lamps that had no fuel to keep them burning. It is plain. They took no oil.

Then, you can hold to that belief in spite of what Scripture says all you want. This discussion was for those who do see what it says in plain Scripture that their lamps were going out (or even "gone out"). I would ask that you go flog your dead horse in another thread.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I will go. But what I have posted lines up with scripture more than what you are teaching. Verse three plainly says they 'took no oil.'

You are not looking for people to agree with the scripture, but to agree with you.

 

[Hope of Glory]

You are not looking for people to agree with the scripture, but to agree with you.

Excuse me? Out of those who had the eyes to see that the virgins had to have oil in order for their lamps to be going out, only 1 agreed with me about what it means.

I simply want to discuss what the scriptures actually say instead of the things that are added outside of Scripture to make it line up.

You can start a new thread flogging your dead horse, and I won't be there to debate it with you, since you care very little for what the Scriptures actually say, even when the infallible KJV translators that you put on a pedestal tell you otherwise.

I don't know whether those who see that they had oil and I will come to a concensus or not, but that is the purpose of this discussion, not your dead horse.

 

[Linda64]

Then, you can hold to that belief in spite of what Scripture says all you want. This discussion was for those who do see what it says in plain Scripture that their lamps were going out (or even "gone out"). I would ask that you go flog your dead horse in another thread.

Comments such as this belong to cults. This is a PUBLIC forum board, open to all. You are not looking for a discussion, you are simply looking for people to say that you (Hope of Glory) are correct. This is a debate forum--therefore, anybody has the right to come in here and disagree with what you say. You, sir, have no right to tell anybody where to post on this forum board.

You are avoiding answering SFIC's question: "Where are the five foolish virgins going that are shut out of the Kingdom?" Also, if those five are "saved", why does the bridegroom say "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."? (Matthew 25:12). What part of "took no oil with them" do you not understand. I understand it to be that those five foolish virgins took NO oil--pretty basic when you don't attempt to re-interpret that verse to mean something else.

 

[webdog]

The Bible does not say they were running out of oil. It says their lamps are gone out. They went out because the foolish virgins were foolishly trying to light lamps that had no fuel to keep them burning. It is plain. They took no oil.

Can you please explain how a lamp "goes out" without any oil to begin with? It's obvious that those lamps that went out...must have had oil in them for the flame to go out. Can you light a lamp with no oil in it...so that the flame can go out?

 

[J. Jump]

Can you please explain how a lamp "goes out" without any oil to begin with? It's obvious that those lamps that went out...must have had oil in them for the flame to go out.

Well webdog you see when you go digging and searching outside of Scripture you find that these weren't used lamps (that still had oil in them or even oil in the cloth) they were brand new lamps that were given to these 10 virgins as gifts for coming to the wedding. And it was the father or the bridegroom himself that mailed these brand new lamps out to everyone and those five silly virgins knew they had brand new lamps, but that just weren't quite bright enough to bring oil. And so they were trying to burn a piece of cloth because they didn't have any oil.

It's amazing the answers you will find when you dig outside of Scripture. Come on webdog didn't you know you weren't supposed to rely on what the text says, but you were to go outside of the text and find some "scholar" that agrees with what you are trying to say so that everything will line up.

Just looking at that argument makes me laugh again. Becuase even when you look at it it doesn't even line up with what Scripture teaches. So the bridegroom and the father give a brand new lamp. That's like saying the Father or the Son (Bridegroom) have given us insufficient tools to do our jobs.

Simply amazing what folks will do to keep holding on to their traditional teaching. It's frustrating, but more than anything it just rips me up on the inside, because I know there are a great many people that are sitting under the teaching of some that have posted on here and being led astray :tear:

 

[webdog]

It's amazing that the Bridegroom would give out brand new lamps without oil...and then scold them for being foolish.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It is equally frustrating to see people putting the unsaved outside of the kingdom.

If the five foolish virgins are saved as you and HoG claim, why did the Lord say He did not know them. He plainly said in John 10 that He knows His sheep and are known of them.

To say they are saved, yet the Lord does not know them is calling the Lord a liar, as was pointed out earlier.

In ancient Jewish times, lamps were sent to those who would be attending the wedding celebrations. Whether old, or new, does not matter; but lamps were sent out.

The fact that lamps were nothing more than a mesh bowl on a stick shows the lamps themselves could not possible hold oil, but the cloth used for a wick was what could hold oil.

As was pointed out before, one does not necessarily have to have oil to light a cloth on fire. But to keep that cloth burning, there has to be a combustible element added.

 

[Hope of Glory]

You, sir, have no right to tell anybody where to post on this forum board.

All I have done is made a request that SFiC can choose to be asinine and ignore if he so chooses. If he wants to flog a dead horse, that is his choice, I simply requested that he do so elsewhere, and he seemed to agree. You seem to have the same problem that he does with making up things outside of the text that is written. I simply requested that this new discussion be for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear what the text actually says: That the lamps were going out, and if they were going out, they had to have been lit. There are several in this category including Gekko, WebDog, Straight and Narrow, and a few others. No aliens sucking the oil out, no "mailed - postage due" lamps, and nothing else that is made up out of thin air outside of Scripture.

You are avoiding answering SFIC's question: "Where are the five foolish virgins going that are shut out of the Kingdom?"

That has been answered and answered and answered again, but SFiC doesn't like the answer, so he says it has not been answered. As long as he equates an entrance into the coming Kingdom with Spiritual salvation, he will be confused and will not like any answer that is given.

Also, if those five are "saved", why does the bridegroom say "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."? (Matthew 25:12).

This would be the continuation of the subject at hand, but SFiC wants to continue to debate outside of Scripture about whether they had oil or not, instead of discussing what it means.

What part of "took no oil with them" do you not understand. I understand it to be that those five foolish virgins took NO oil--pretty basic when you don't attempt to re-interpret that verse to mean something else.

Only the part that what you have stated here is completely made up outside of Scripture, just as much as aliens sucking up the oil is made up.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Linda64,

It is best to stop casting pearls. Paul wrote that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

The fact that the five 'took no oil' with them is quite evident from the scripture. These want to give them oil where they had no oil. These want to say they are saved, yet not part of God's eternal kingdom.

I say it is time to shake the dust off your feet and leave them to their folly.

 

[J. Jump]

If the five foolish virgins are saved as you and HoG claim, why did the Lord say He did not know them. He plainly said in John 10 that He knows His sheep and are known of them.

To say they are saved, yet the Lord does not know them is calling the Lord a liar, as was pointed out earlier.

Again you are combining two different contexts and trying to prove your point. I can prove anything under the sun if I don't compare correct Scripture with correct Scripture as you are doing here.

In ancient Jewish times, lamps were sent to those who would be attending the wedding celebrations. Whether old, or new, does not matter; but lamps were sent out.

I don't have a problem with that, but you are saying that lamps were sent out that were unusable. I'll send you a lamp but you provide your own oil. That's the statement you are making the Father are Christ are saying. I'll give you the goods, but I'm not going to give you everything that you need in order to make them work. That's just crazy.

The fact that lamps were nothing more than a mesh bowl on a stick shows the lamps themselves could not possible hold oil, but the cloth used for a wick was what could hold oil.

Again that doesn't matter. You are saying what God gives to us is insufficient and that we have to supply something on our own. There's zero Biblical support for that. If God gives you something and then requires you to use it He's going to give you EVERYTHING you need!

 

[J. Jump]

It is best to stop casting pearls. Paul wrote that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

So now not only are we wrong, but we are unsaved. Give me a break.

But thanks for bringing up yet another Scripture that proves what we are staying to be the Truth. Truth is spiritually discerned. And yet you want to say that some unsaved virigins knew they were supposed to be prepared, despite even being in a position to understand what was being shared with them.

One can not understand preparation unless they are saved. Preparation (works) are the picture and works don't enter the picture until AFTER salvation.

So thanks again for yet more Biblical support for the Truth!