Ok, define Easter

I said:

It looks like English, though it's difficult to parse. I assume that whatever you are trying to say, you feel strongly about it.

Fits all the rules of grammar, friend.

So does the sentence "Small green ideas sleep furiously," but it doesn't guarantee it (or you) makes sense, now, does it?

 

quote:If I were an Israeli, I would highly recommend obeying an ordinance from GOD to all Israel that He said was FOR EVER.

Frank Betz: I take it that you are 7th Day Adventist by that remark?

Trying to change the subject, I see. This has nothing to do with the SDA; they don't practice Judaism. And GOD GAVE SOME SPECIFIC COMMANDS TO ISRAEL ALONE-Passover was one of them. After all, it was Israel whom God chose as a special people, and Israel whom He brought out of Egypt. And I don't know what part of "for ever" you don't understand, but that's the word in Exodus 12 as found in your own KJV.

quote:Once again, Frank, you've shown an abysmal understanding of your very own fave Bible version, Frank, and definitely a lack of READING it. I even helped you, or at least TRIED to, by supplying the verse in which GOD establishes Passover for Israel FOREVER.

"Abysmal"? "Forever"? Epostulate please?

Again you mix Law with Grace, impossible.

Thanx for helping make my case of your poor understanding."You shall not steal" is just as applicable now as it was in C. 1450 BC when God gave His laws to Moses. Jesus replaced atonement with His grace and animal sacrifice with His own sacrifice. And He repeatedly said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill all that was prophesied that He would fulfill at His first coming. He made it plain that there are some laws that apply to everyone in all generations, as my example of "you shall not steal" applies.


And you admitted to not being an Israeli, which if that really meant anything, it would then place you under that veil that blinds the Jew, but then again.....

You just cannot follow a discussion, can you?

My being an Israeli or not has NOTHING to do with the subject. God ordained the Passover observance for Israel, and since the Jews are part of Israel, and their national identity has never been questioned since they became a tribe, they follow God's command. This is separate from their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah...they're obeying a command of GOD'S, which He said was UNTO ALL GENERATIONS OF ISRAEL, FOREVER. This is straight from the Bible, with no "private interpretations" added.

quote:
Scripture tells us who actually take the time to READ it instead of GUESSING at what it says, that JESUS kept the Passover. His human lineage was Jewish, therefore Israeli, and as He obeyed all laws, thus He obeyed the Passover law. Now, please show us where He ABOLISHED(NOT added to) the Passover law. Once again, Passover has NOTHING to do with His resurrection. It is the commemoration of God's bringing Israel out of Egypt, and it was established by GOD to be observed by ALL generations of Israel FOREVER. Once again, please show us, from the KJV, where EASTER was established BY GOD. And please don't be so asinine as to say "Acts 12:4".

It's no wonder most won't reply to you, you are so insulting.

Can't answer? Just be a man & in Christian honesty, admit it.

1st you misinterpret Sceripture,

Ex. 12:14, KJV-And this day shall be unto you for a memorial;

Any other interpretation possible, with the preceeding verses pinpointing "this day"?


and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations;

Any time limit set for how many generations are to keep it?


ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

As I asked earlier, what part of "for ever" don't you understand? I "interpret" Scripture AS WRITTEN, without adding any twists or man-made false doctrines to it. In this verse, God commands Israel to keep this day as a memorial to His bringing Israel out of Egypt with mighty miracles, and to keep it FOR EVER. Straightforward as a sledge hammer. No room for any other "interpretation". There, you have it.

I asked you for Scripture from the KJV where God nollies His command, and I see no reply.


then you try to deny the Dispensation of Grace instituted by the Death, Burial, and Ressurrection.

Please take your Thorazine before you post...it may save you some embarrassment. Now, if you're sober, please cut-n-paste, from any post on any board, where I deny the Gospel, or be judged a liar by every reader of this board...Not to mention by GOD!

2nd, you cannot force Greek into the English.

Passover, in English, is that which God commanded Israel to observe yearly, typically of the Death of Christ, His Crucifixcion.

God clearly explained why He instituted the Passover observance...it had/has nothing to do with what JESUS did.


Easter is the English word, in our English Bible,

It's an anomaly found in ONE VERSION of the English Bibles now in use.


transubstanciation doesn't work according to the rules of transliteration. IOW, you're trying to force English to say something only found in a limited definition of Greek. It's no wonder you are so limited in your reasoning of this matter.

Actually, you're talking to yourself...Luke wrote pascha, which in the Greek of his time meant only passover. He even says the events occurred during the DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, which was Passover Week. You may email Dr. Spiros Zhodiates or any other Greek scholar of your choosing, trying to find one which will say what you wanna hear. Won't work. Never mind that EASTER DIDN'T EXIST when Luke wrote.

quote:
And while you're at it, Frank, how about answering, from the KJV, the questions I asked you in a very recent post.

I will no longer waste your time, roby, you're wasted enough

KJVOese for, "I am clueless".

Until next time...

 

This thread is quickly degenerating. It will be closed without notice if the personal attacks continue.

 

OK, Roby, you do deserve one last answer to your dilemma, Define "Easter".

YOU started the thread, YOU answered your own question, and TCassidy expounded it in more depth. 'Twas not necessary for me to add anything as the two of you said it all about the definition of easter.

You argue against the very thing you insist upon, that sets you in disorder by your own premise.

Please explain.

Also, you have labled me as "KJVO". By your definition, that is not Christian at all, nor is it even near the truth.

What other version(s) do you use or recommend?

I haven't once denied the Jews recognise the Passover, but as a Christian, you would be denying the Ressurrection of Christ by choosing to remain in observance of the Passover, thus choosing to reamin under the veil as ascribed to blind Jews.

I am neither Israeli nor an observer of Passover. But GOD ordained that Israel observe Passover FOR EVER.

But what alarms me the most in this discussion with you, is how vulgar you have been towards me, and towards others.

Shall I point out YOUR recent examples of such "vulgarity" towards ME? No, that would serve no purpose since they're a matter of public record on your posts. But I WILL continue to disagree with what I see as incorrect premises, false doctrines, and Scripture-twisting.

You contradict what the world needs to see of Christians, and you are in desparate need of correction.

Wrong, Sir...Plainly, YOU have introduced some man-made views into the meanings of certain Scriptures. What I have done is point out that they're WRONG.

If you care to repost your questions, I will answer them from the KJB, but if you expect me to rehash old history and search through a pail of garbage for your questions, you'll be waiting a very Loooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggg time! But please do make sure the questions you ask are covered in the pages of Our Bible?

Sure!

You say you're not KJVO? Then, what other version(s) do you use and/or recommend?

In Exodus 12, God instituted Passover for Israel FOR EVER. Please point out in Scripture where He nollied this command.

Easter is a man-made observance of the resurrection of Christ, while Passover is a God-ordained memorial service commemorating God's bringing the nation of Israel forth from Egypt. All Jews are Israelis, & therefore are under God's command to observe Passover. Jesus instituted Communion during His last passover. Now, please show us from Scripture where God nollied His Passover command to Israel.

 

Frank Betz: I see, you demand answers, but then you dodge every question I asked you.

Then please ask away, and I shall copy and paste them, with the answers immediately following, as I'm doing with your previous words as I type this post. That way, the entire readership can see the questions and the answers together, and be able to go back to your post and see if I skipped any of them or not.


BTW, TC did not define Easter completely. From THE Christian standpoint, it is the timeof year we recognise, as Christians, that is, The Ressurrection of Christ,

Actually, Easter as we know it is a specific DAY, the first Sunday that occurs after the first full moon on or after the vernal equinox. The vernal equinox is always on March 21, so Easter always falls on a Sunday between Mar.22 to April 25. The actual Easter observance as we know it is the commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus, with various customs or ceremonies practiced by various groups or denominations.


but you huys INSIST on the Passover.

Actually, we insist upon what GOD'S WORD SAYS.

Easter is Christian, Passover is Judaism. Will you ever learn? "No."

Actually, Easter is man-made, while Passover is of GOD. Passover was given by God to Israel alone, while Easter has been observed by Christians, Jewish and Gentile. GOD ordained Passover, while MAN made Easter.

Then you DARE to try and separate Israeli's from Jews?

Please cut-n-paste any such statement from me, or be labeled a liar. I'm SERIOUS, Frank. There are several thousand readers who will be waiting for your answer, not to mention GOD. He has a place for liars. Do you really wanna push HIS envelope? Making up nonsense as you go is one thing, but when you put forth an accusation, you'd better be able to BACK IT UP.

 

Frank Betz:BTW, "forever" has it's limitations, you know that, that is why the Scripture says "forever, and ever."

So, God didn't really mean for ever when He SAID "for ever"? Yeah, right....Does this mean you believe in PURGATORY?

The Hebrew word rendered "for ever" in the KJV is 'owlam', which means "forever, unending, permanent". Feel free to ask any bona fide Hebrew expert if you don't believe me.

As for "forever and ever"...The Hebrew word rendered "and ever(Exd 15:18) is 'ad', which means, "everlasting, of continuous existence". Again, feel free to ask...

English isn't the only language that adds emphasis. But it IS the language with which we're now dealing. One might say, "I drove and drove and drove looking for the exit", emphasizing the fact that he drove for some time in trying to find the exit. Who says GOD cannot use emphasis by repetition? Who says that His prophets and penmen couldn't use emphasis by repetition? And since WHEN did "for ever", words used by GOD concerning the Passover, NOT mean EXACTLY THAT?


Again, you try to mix Law with Grace eeeennnnnnkkkkk!

The TRUTH is, you're assuming someone's gonna believe your additions & subtractions to the meaning of certain Scriptures. Sorry, that hippo won't fly.

ADDITION...You say Jesus abolished Passover, but you cannot support it with SCRIPTURE.

SUBTRACTION...You say "for ever" doesn't mean "for ever", even when GOD says it.

You speak about the KJV, but then, where it reads,"for ever", you don't believe it.

 

The 1535 Coverdale's Bible is one of the earlier pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision. According to the 1535 Coverdale's online at www.studylight.org, Coverdale's had
"Easter" at several O. T. verses: (Lev. 23:5, Num. 9:2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 13, 14; 28:16, 33:3, Deut. 16:1, 2, 5, 6, Jos. 5:10, 11, 2 Kings 23:21, 22, 23, 2 Chron. 30:1, 18, and Ezek. 45:21.


For an example of the obsolete meaning of "Easter" as "The Jewish passover," the OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY listed Coverdale's use in Ezek. 45:21 and the last example listed was the 1611 Bible--Acts 12:4 (Vol. 5, p. 37).

However, the Oxford English Dictionary does not show or prove that the KJV translators left "Easter" intentionally at Acts 12:4 since it could have possibly been left as an oversight
from the Bishops' Bible.

 

Never said otherwise, Frank. But i really wonder what you're trying to prove. We have posted the clear definition of Easter, and I've even posted the origins of Passover, straight from Scripture.

I have NEVER said passover and Easter are the same; in fact I've insisted that the use of Easter in Acts 12:4 is incorrect, as the Greek pascha meant only Passover in Luke's time, and that Easter didn't then exist. Agai, if I've failed to answer any question addressed to me, please ask away, & I shall answer, God willing.

 

I always find it quite interesting that those who refuse to let the original language speak for itself, accuse others of a bias.

The word "pascha" is in no other place in the NT, even in the KJV translated as easter. Its translation outside of the Scripture is never easter. In the Greek the word means passover not easter. I believe the bias is in those who hold to the KJV as if it corrects the original language. The word means what it means and in any language it does not mean easter.

Bro Tony

 

Frank Betz:That is where you remain in error, Easter marks the end of the days of unleavened bread.

What have you been smoking? Easter has nothing to do with Passover Week, except that they happen to fall at around the same time.

Easter is the English word for the Christian Feast celebrating the Ressurrection, thus the KJB translators correctly defined "pashca" in the FACT that Jesus did away with the Ceremonial laws, thus FULFILLING them.

Easter has nothing to do with Passover. When Luke wrote, he wrote "pascha", which then meant Passover only, and EASTER DIDN'T THEN EXIST. If THAT's the reason you believe the AV men wrote "Easter", not only are you completely wrong; you're accusing them of substituting THEIR thoughts for LUKE'S.

If you wish to hold to a Judaistic view, then be my guest, but since you're posting in "Baptist only" forum, you're in violation, for there is none such Judaistic baptist!!

You've completely lost all touch with reality on this issue.

You're "arguing" without all the facts considered, again. Hint: Luke spoke Aramaic, for one, and that Easter is recognised as the satisfying and the completion of the Days of Unleavened Bread, both Easter and the Passover came to an end in the Jewish month Nisan, in the year of Abib, beginning on the 14th thru the 20th. Both are coincidental in time frame, but the one is preferred by Christrians, the other is preferred by Jews, and NOT Messianic Jews, either.

Luke may have spoken Slobbovian, but apparently either he or his copyise wrote in GREEK...and at any rate, all his works God preserved are in Greek.

I think it's time you looked at this w/o your anti KJB bias, but then again, you'd rather give recognition to a DEAD ritual.

As I said, you've lost all touch with reality on this issue. I haven't seen anyone so far off the issues nor post such silliness for awhile now. I've tried to stay polite, but this is simply too much.

I'll type slowly so it doesn't go over your head again...

GOD ordained Passover for Israel and Israel alone. The Jews are part of Israel; they've never lost their national identity as the Ten Tribes did. And I've shown you the KJV Scriptures for Exodus 12, where GOD ordains Passover for Israel FOR EVER. What part of "for ever" don't you understand? Where does GOD nolly His Passover command? Isn't He unchanging? I fully understand that Passover is for Israel only, while Easter is not mentioned in Scripture(Not counting its misuse in Acts 12:4 of the KJV), and is a man-made observance , made to make Christianity acceptable to the pagans of the land that's now France & Germany.

For that matter, the Romans' pagan festival of SATURNALIA was in full swing when Luke wrote. It fell near the time of Passover also.

No, Frank...Passover and Easter were NEVER related!

Now tell me...Why cannot a Jewish Christian observe Passover? What command of God's would that violate? What part of "for ever' would he be ignoring?

 

I'd say you have been watching too much Star Wars Mr. Yoda. The word is never translated easter in any place except in the one verse of the KJV. It does not mean easter anywhere, to make it do so is to create an English meaning to a word that it does not mean. A little study into the original language might help you in your understanding. Just because you say, and some Anglican translator mis-translated a word does not make it so, except maybe in a galaxy far far away. Spend a little less time with the force and more with the Book.

Bro Tony