Ok, define Easter

Anti_Alexandrian:So let me see ifin I'm understanding you right...
So your saying even in spite of Scripture clearly showing the Edomite and Easter being contemporary,you still maintain your postion?

Yes, I DO, because the actual Scripture does NOT show Easter contemporary with Herod. Luke wrote pascha, which in his(and Herod's) day, meant PASSOVER ONLY. You're trying to tell us that pascha meant easter when Luke wrote Acts, and that simply isn't so. Easter DID NOT EXIST when Luke wrote Acts. To say Luke was writing about Easter in Acts 12 is equivalent to saying the Ethiopian about whom he wrote in Acts 8 was driving a Ford.(As an important palace official, he was wealthy & was driving a Ferrari.)

 

I'm willing to compromise (and have) by agreeing with Doc T.

He has proven that the word "easter" could refer to the Jewish Passover and that the word actually was used as such in the 17th century.

IMO, it might have been an OK translation then but needs to be updated for the 21st century reader to accurately translate the intent and meaning of the Holy Spirit/Luke.

This is the only real issue, the intent and meaning of the inspired words.

HankD

 

Can we agree that perhaps in 1611 "Easter" would be an acceptable translation of Acts 12:4, but not today?

 

I think at least a couple of us have said that.

HankD

 

When something changes over time, one example has to be last. I have asked for examples of literature contemporary with the making of the AV that use Easter for Passover, and have seen none posted, so perhaps that usage in the AV's Acts 12:4 is that last example. However, I still have a problem with it because the older Geneva Bible reads 'Passover' in its later editions.

At any rate, all the other "reasons" why Easter was used in the AV are wrong; they're merely examples of KJVO guesswork. Let's review them quickly.

Frank Betz started this topic with a rambling discourse about the history of Easter as we know it, implying that the AV translators were talking about this Easter in Acts 12:4.

Poppycock. Easter as we know it didn't exist in Luke's or Herod's time.

C4K & Doc Cas then clarified the definition of Easter as we now know it, while Frank went into left field about Easter eliminating Passover, ignoring the plain Scripture that God ordained Passover FOR ISRAEL, and only for Israel,for ever.

Scott J. then reminds us that CHRIST is OUR Passover. Whose passover? CHRISTIANS', of course, regardless of nationality or race.

Frank then advised us we cannot force Greek into English, telling us Easter is the English word for Passover. He fails to take into account that EVERY accurate New Testament translation there is, is made from Greek.

Frank keeps going on about OUR observing passover, which is an assumption from left field. He then goes from left field into the bullpen & scoops something off the ground, telling us that "for-ever" is LIMITED! !?!

Next, Frank reminds us that Easter and Passover come at nearly the same time. Big deal. The USA'a Independence Day and France's Bastille Day are close together but totally separate. Easter and Passover are as separate from each other as they each are from the Roman Saturnalia which occurred at the same time.

Frank goes on to make the ridiculous statement that "Easter marks the end of the days of unleavened bread". I should like to see some SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for that view!

Next, we had Benaiah tell us that the KJV is the only English BV to have "gotten it right", using the utterly-wrong view that Herod was worshipping Ishtar/Eostre. If that woulda been the case, Luke woulda written a name for that idol instead of the Greek name for the Jews' most holy observance, ordained by GOD.

Then we have Askjo, repeating the same "Ishtar" nonsense mentioned by Benaiah.

In summary, we have Frank Betz asking for and receiving a clear definition of Easter, but insisting that Easter as we know it was around in 59-62 AD and that it had supplanted Passover...Benaiah and Askjo hawking a totally-false assumption that the KJV's use of Easter pertains to Herod's worshipping Ishtar...but worst of all, Frank's saying that God did not mean "for ever" when He said "for ever".

I would like to know the answers to two questions:

1.) From Scripture, where did GOD cancel His command to Israel to observe Passover unto all its generations, for ever?

2.) From Scripture, where does Jesus tie Easter into Passover, and where does He tell us to observe Easter?

 

Frank Betz: Funny, 100 out 0f 100 Greeks define "pascha" as "Easter"/ The Resurrection.

Funny, they DON'T. It depends upon the context of its use whether it means Easter or Passover. And, when luke wrote Acts, it meant passover ONLY.


Luke, being a Christian would not have left out the Resurrection.

If he were writing about the "religious' Jews of his time, he certainly WOULD. He COULD, and he DID.


"Easter" is English for The Resurrection.

And there was neither Easter nor English when Luke wrote Acts.

Some cannot discern Ceremonial Laws from the Moral Laws. When something has been "fulfilled", it is no longer in effect, thus Passover is a Ceremonial Law FULFILLED by The Resurrection of Christ,

Yeah, never mind that GOD ordained Passover to Israel FOREVER, while He didn't ordain Easter at all.


but one CANNOT convince those opposed to the KJB of that!

Yeah, we have this little prob with NOT BELIEVING A LIE.

BTW...Who here is opposed to the KJV? What we ARE opposed to is the man-made false doctrine that some have built up around that particular version.


Luke would have never left out the Resurrection, neither would the Holy Ghost, but those who promote modern versions would.

Nonsense.

If Luke were writing about things other than the Resurrection, he certainly woulda not mentioned it. Well, he WAS writing about something else...Peter's arrest during Passover Week. Same with the Holy Spirit...if He were telling someone about an entirely-different thing, He would NOT mention the Resurrection. If you order dinner, do YOU say, "I'd like a burger, please, and Christ was resurrected from the dead"?


The "for ever" has taken it's course in being FULFILLED, uh, since all trhings as we know them will NOT continue "for ever" due to the elements melting with a fervent heat, and this corruptable putting on incorruption.

Total codwallop!

What part of "for ever" did God not mean when He said "for ever"? Was God not being truthful when He said He would reign FOR EVER? Will David dwell in the house of the Lord FOR EVER? Will YOU be in the kingdom of God FOR EVER? Will the devil, his angels, the antichrist, his prophet, and all who die in sin be in gehenna FOR EVER, or is just a "purgatory" from which they'll get out in a few centuries? Will any of THOSE "for evers" run their course and end? Or, was God not being truthful when He said "for ever"?

I do suppose those who argue that the Passover is still "correctly" to be observed, will also begin sprinkling the blood of two trutle doves, goats, bulls, and are also in search of the "red hefer"?

God gave Passover to Israel FOR EVER. Thus saith the Lord. Passover was given BY GOD, TO ISRAEL ALONE. NEVER did He give Easter to anyone, Jew or gentile.

I asked for SCRIPTURE showing where GOD canceled His Passover command to Israel, and where He ordained Easter for ANYONE. Now, either answer or admit you're WRONG. As for me & my house, we shall serve the LORD, believing that when He said "for ever", He meant exactly THAT.

 

Frank Betz: Exactly, because the Passover is referred to in paranthesis/ "pashca", and to be doctrinally and chronologically correct, The Resurrection would not have been left out by ANY Christian!!!

Poppycock!

If the subject was NOT about Jesus' resurrection, neither Luke nor anyone else would bend over backward to mention it.


And since the Passover is specifically referenced as that observance of the peoples' shedding of a lamb's blood as OPPOSED to God shedding His OWN BLOOD!!!???!!!

WRONG!

The Passover is a memorial of God's bringing Israel outta Egypt. And those are GOD'S words, not mine. For a KJVO, you sure have some problems believing what your fave version says:

Exodus 12:14 "And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

17And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

24And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

26And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

27That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped."

Frank, you miss the meaning of Passover entirely. OF COURSE it means nothing to any non-Israelis, because ISRAEL was the people God removed from Egypt, guiding and protecting them by His power. Why do you thing God commanded them to not leaven their bread or any of their other food? Why do you think God commanded them to eat the paschal lamb in one meal, burning what was left of it the next morn? Because God wanted them to be ready to travel upon short notice.


Thus the Passover is fulfilled, and the LORD would have more recognition of the Resurrection than any Judaiser might ever conceive. Or any mv proponent either.

Do you believe your KJV or not? In every KJV I've ever read, God said "for ever" in Exodus 12.

I've asked several times, now, for Scripture where God cancels His Passover command to Israel...and where He ordains Easter for anyone. Again, either answer or admit you're wrong. Failure to do so will automatically prove you a prevaricator.

 

Frank Betz:Roby, to [put it plainly, your anti-KJB bias has you utterly CONFUSED!!!

Look who's talking. At least I know what "for ever" means.

If you really want to discuss the subject of "for ever", then please tell me if all those "things" under the segment of being "for ever" observed will also be observed during LORD's Eternal Day,

Frank, I asked you some common-sense questions. Either you cannot answer them, or you don't wanna hafta tell the TRUTH for once.


uh, since you're either 7th day, or almost. But then you really aren't Baptist and posting in a BAPTIST ONLY forum and going against BB rules.

Now you've lowered yourself to name calling and losing all respect.

With your above sentence, I rest my case of referring to you as a prevaricator.

I am sorry you cannot discern the truth that the Passover is Ceremonial and has been FULFILLED by the Crucifixion and the Bodily Resurrection of Christ.

How many times have I asked you for SCRIPTURE proving your stuff? Several. How many times have you answered? NONE ! !


It's really no wonder you are also so confused when it comes to knowing what the Bible is, and what the Bible is NOT!!

Sorry, Sir, I do NOT subscribe to the opinions of men, such as is the KJVO myth.

God Bless you Roby, and please begin asking the Lord for the spirit of discernment, IMMEDIATELY!!!

God bless you also, Sir, and may He forgive you for saying God didn't mean it when He said, "for ever".

Now, one more time:

1.) Please show us from scripture where God cancels His Passover command.

2.) Please show us from Scripture where God ordains Easter for anyone.

3. ) Please prove GOD LIED when He said "for ever".

 

Gentlemen,

This thread is well past the normal five page closure. The debate seesm to be running in circles and as moderator I can't see any reason for it to remain open.

I will leave the thread open until about noon Friday (unless actions mitigate an earlier closure) to conclude the discussion.

Roger
C4K
Moderator

 

Lighten up gentlemen?

There is a good part of the paganization of "Easter".

We get to destroy all those images of bunnies made out of chocolate.

HankD

 

Thread closed at 1200 EDT as mentioned above.